Slavic homeland and ethnogenesis

[Милан М.]

"It is now generally agreed that the people who lived in the Balkans after the Slavic "invasions" were probably for the most part the same as those who had lived there earlier, although the creation of new political groups and arrival of small immigrants caused people to look at themselves as distinct from their neighbours, including the Byzantines".

T E Gregory, A History of Byzantium. Wiley-Blackwell, 2010. Pg 169

The Militarization of Sclaveni occured during Justinian reign and the inflation and mess he caused,i support Curta view he make the most sense to me.

 

[Dalmat]

The problem with that idea, and I think I'm repeating myself in this thread:


If you claim "the migration period never happened", then you have to explain where Slavic languages were spoken before. The region you mentioned (Croatia) was part of the Roman Empire. We have plenty of linguistic evidence from all areas that were part of the Roman Empire, including the Balkans, including the entire Danube river region from source to mouth. If early Slavic speakers were present there, we should have plenty of evidence for them. We do not have that, and Florin Curta (for example) should have been aware of that, which is why you can (obviously) dismiss his hypothesis.

The alternative, of course, is that you go the full pseudoscientist route and claim "Illyrians, Pannonians, Thracians, etc. were actually secretly Slavs", and then you're moving into the terrain of irredentists and charlatans.



I won't disagree there, but I do not see how the self-designation as "Slav" is actually relevant to the actual question of the thread (Slavic homeland / Slavic ethnogenesis). Unless you claim that the Slavic languages magically came out of thin air in the 5th century or so, you have to explain that somebody, somewhere spoke the Proto-Slavic language.

There is no evidence they didnt speak some archaic version of Slavic that evolved into South Slavic
Croatian language has 2nd most marine time terms after Japanese... that suggest we were living on the adriatic sea for a long long time


From archeology we have few Avar graveyards on border area with Hungary, and one Gothic graveyard with few graves in Dalmatia.

Thats it, there was no cultural change at all, so there is no archaeological evidence for any population change

Hell we even today use specific boats that were recorded as Illyrian by Romans, and still have some traditions that Romans noted as Illyrian, like training of marines on Neretva river on light fast boats

 

[mihaitzateo]

The people who brought current Slavic languages were clearly related to Latvians,Lithuanians and Old Prussians and other Baltic people.
Slavic languages comes from Balto-Slavic with Iranic,Germanic and other influences.
As for the theory with Slavic homeland and Slavic expansion,question,how Slavs got in their proto-homeland than?
And how come that their language is so closed to Balto-Slavic both as sonority and as words and so on?
And how come Baltic people also have as main HG R1A and also significant I2-din?
Too many coincidences ,I think is clear,Balto-Slavic people expanded Southward,conquering people there,after,over these people came Iranic and Germanic speakers and these made current proto-Slavic language to appear.
EDIT:
Here some distances between Baltic languages and Slavic languages,which support this theory:
Lithuanian language: Belarusian (1.92), Old Russian (2.84), Ukrainian (3.64), Russian (6.07), Czech (6.14), Latvian(6.45), Slovene (7.46), Slovak (12.99), Macedonian (17.11), Sorbian (18.22), Bulgarian (19.64), Polish(24.62), Serbo-Croatian (25.66)

Latvian language: Old Russian (2.47), Russian (3.65), Lithuanian (6.45), Ukrainian (7.50), Slovene (8.83), Belarusian (10.68 ), Macedonian (12.34), Czech (14.38 ), Bulgarian (15.89), Slovak (16.31), Serbo-Croatian (19.97), Sorbian (24.46), Polish (39.66).
See,Baltic languages are most closed to Old Russian/Belarussian.
I can not read Cyrilic,but here is the study,I guess is in Russian and in Cyrilic:
http://epa.oszk.hu/01500/01521/00014/pdf/EPA01521_EurasianStudies_0212_054-067.pdf

 

[Taranis]

Map of Constantine the Great empire,What kind of evidence you have which languages was spoken within the empire?apart from Latin being adminstrative,do you have any mention of Albanian for instance or the Vlachs,was from that period any Thracian,Illyrian inscription,

That map shows the Roman empire around the time of its greatest extend, under emperor Trajan, not under Constantine. I have included it to visualize the scope from which we have data. And in the case that you didn't know until now, there actually is an entire field of linguistics dedicated to that question: it is called onomastics. And yes, we do have plenty of onomastic evidence from these Danube region and from the Balkans.

As regards the Albanians, there's been a couple of threads here on the issue. The general consensus is that Albanian evolved from one of the so-called "Paleo-Balkans" languages, but the data is insufficient to say with absolute certainty which one of them was the actual ancestor. I might add that Albanian much better fits the characteristics of a language that survived inside the border of the Roman Empire (unlike the Slavic languages!), because of its large amount of Latin loanwords. As regards the Vlachs, I don't even see where your problem is. The Vlachs, after all, speak a Romance language...

couple times i wrote Slavic toponyms in Pannonia and Danube basin and quite old ones,

"Quite old" as opposed to what? As I said, the river name "Drava" appears in Roman sources, I don't see anything distinctly Slavic about it.

Slavic language was quite irrelevant until they gain power,there was Slavicization in the Balkans perhaps like it was Romanization,but migration period archeology fail to prove speacialy in the Balkans,cause material culture wasn't change by a lot,couple cremation burials in Greece,Bulgaria,Croatia could indicate "barbarians" but very small number and maybe not,Slavic was lingua franca within Avar and Sclavene period and most of Balkans spoke it then,but how one will explain the demographic collapse in the same region from 6th-7th century exactly when migration supposed to happening.

Again, this is completely wrong. If the Slavic languages were present on the Balkans or in Pannonia before the demise of the Roman Empire, we should see this in onomastic data from the region. Which we don't.

The internal reconstruction of Slavic languages (another linguistic tool), as I have mentioned a couple of times in this thread, also heavily disagrees with this, too, and pinpoints to the area of the Milograd or Chernoles culture, instead.

I might add, I don't necessarily disagree with the idea of this "acculturation" (that Slavic languages were introduced by a relatively small elite on the Balkans and in the Pannonian basin, or that Slavic was indeed, introduced as a lingua franca). But I heavily disagree with the notion that the Slavic languages were present in the region before the fall of the Roman Empire, because that is in complete defiance of every possible evidence.

There is no evidence they didnt speak some archaic version of Slavic that evolved into South Slavic
Croatian language has 2nd most marine time terms after Japanese... that suggest we were living on the adriatic sea for a long long time

That's actually completely wrong (this "archaic version of Slavic"), because on the area of Croatia you have evidence for a Centum language, Liburnian, which was similar to the Venetic language of northeastern Italy (and apparently close related to the Italic languages), while the Slavic languages (like Albanian, Armenian, Baltic and Indo-Iranic) are Satem languages. Liburnian definitely was not "some archaic version of Slavic".

 

[Милан М.]

That map shows the Roman empire around the time of its greatest extend, under emperor Trajan, not under Constantine. I have included it to visualize the scope from which we have data. And in the case that you didn't know until now, there actually is an entire field of linguistics dedicated to that question: it is called onomastics. And yes, we do have plenty of onomastic evidence from these Danube region and from the Balkans.

As regards the Albanians, there's been a couple of threads here on the issue. The general consensus is that Albanian evolved from one of the so-called "Paleo-Balkans" languages, but the data is insufficient to say with absolute certainty which one of them was the actual ancestor. I might add that Albanian much better fits the characteristics of a language that survived inside the border of the Roman Empire (unlike the Slavic languages!), because of its large amount of Latin loanwords. As regards the Vlachs, I don't even see where your problem is. The Vlachs, after all, speak a Romance language...



"Quite old" as opposed to what? As I said, the river name "Drava" appears in Roman sources, I don't see anything distinctly Slavic about it.



Again, this is completely wrong. If the Slavic languages were present on the Balkans or in Pannonia before the demise of the Roman Empire, we should see this in onomastic data from the region. Which we don't.

The internal reconstruction of Slavic languages (another linguistic tool), as I have mentioned a couple of times in this thread, also heavily disagrees with this, too, and pinpoints to the area of the Milograd or Chernoles culture, instead.

I might add, I don't necessarily disagree with the idea of this "acculturation" (that Slavic languages were introduced by a relatively small elite on the Balkans and in the Pannonian basin, or that Slavic was indeed, introduced as a lingua franca). But I heavily disagree with the notion that the Slavic languages were present in the region before the fall of the Roman Empire, because that is in complete defiance of every possible evidence.



That's actually completely wrong (this "archaic version of Slavic"), because on the area of Croatia you have evidence for a Centum language, Liburnian, which was similar to the Venetic language of northeastern Italy (and apparently close related to the Italic languages), while the Slavic languages (like Albanian, Armenian, Baltic and Indo-Iranic) are Satem languages. Liburnian definitely was not "some archaic version of Slavic".

We determine one language faith because of Latin influence,didn't knew this,and you must mean the area of Dalmatia instead of Croatia proper.OCS has arround 150 Greek loanwords and loanwords from the extinct Dalmatian Latin,Why don't you explain other posts,about isoglosses and various other posts with Slavic names,with Slavic presence in Pannonia and Danube Basin that even predate the "Roman empire" you skip them,i can not constantly repeat myself,you are very wrong if you think that today science support any migrations from Chernoles in the 7th century,which impose language on half europe,gigantic genocide of half Europe!one must underestimate his own science,which two centuries fail to explain anything,Albanian was actualy within one family most probably with Slavic and Baltic,it is heavy influenced by Slavic like Romanian is,Albanian doesn't have many Latin neither Greek loanwords don't know from where you have this,that's why in my knowledge Albanian doesn't evolve where is present now,but maybe you can correct me again,maybe you will explain the Balkanic Sprachbund as well in which many hypothesis was made,it was actualy enough of this one and same discussion,even the historian Jordanes describing the Veneti to the North,Antes to east confirm the Sklavenoi presence in the South.

 

[Sile]

I know whoever they might be,Procopious and Jordanes had different things for them to say and no one said they came from Russian plain,plus the Sklavenoi were warrior bands not migrant farmers,there was within the empire of them helping the other,they knew when and where to strike,especialy when the empire was at war,every enemy of Roman empire became Sklabenoi/Sklavenoi,Roman empire was crumbling it was not like they were fluorishing and all were happy to be Romans but barbarians destroyed their dream,all this occured under Justinian reign,Procopious in his secret history described him as the worst emperor,Romans themselves retreat from the Balkan peninsula,the term Sclavinia was used for territory without Roman control and authority,something like Enclave.

The map is further proof that the venedi mountains are in old prussia and not where Jordanes says the carpathians mountains.

The Ve Ne Dae ( venedi ) lived along the coast, who where insignificant people in ancient times but becoming prominent in the middleages when they where renamed the Warmians ( in exactly the same place as the Venedi )

As the Greek ending of AE for the tribal names is agreeable that it means many ...........but am I reading Ma Ev Ro Pae as Maevropae which I do not understand.

 

[Sile]

there are no archaeological evidence of any large scale migration, term Slaven is a term that was made on later date in history.
You will not find mention os Slavs in early history, because that term was non existent

Croats have been called, sarmtians, goths, and illyrians interchangeably in a same book as synonyms, by Byzantines, that tells you about their mentality at that time

But also that is the reason why so much theories of Croatians as Gothic, or Iranic ancestry has been made in newer ages.


For me, it seems they just called barbarians north of them like that

I have no doubt that a high percentage of croatians as well as bosnians are from ancient Illyrian tribes

 

[Sile]

First dating "We are Slavs" is from 12th century Russian chronicles,but that was more like claiming ancestry,term Sloven,Slavjan in Slavic sense mean speaker of Slavic,but not in ethnic sense only speaker of my tongue,well how could they be pirates and harrass trough Adriatic if they came from Carpathians even made boats to laid siege on Constantinople with Avars and Persians,weird Sklavenoi etrified: and harassed the Romans elsewhere.

The celts and illyrians of Noricum where trading with the greeks in steel/iron weapons via the danube river into the black sea and to greece. They did not need to reach the Adriatic even though some ancient Greeks thought the Danube flowed into the adriatic sea.

 

[Sile]

There is no evidence they didnt speak some archaic version of Slavic that evolved into South Slavic
Croatian language has 2nd most marine time terms after Japanese... that suggest we were living on the adriatic sea for a long long time


From archeology we have few Avar graveyards on border area with Hungary, and one Gothic graveyard with few graves in Dalmatia.

Thats it, there was no cultural change at all, so there is no archaeological evidence for any population change

Hell we even today use specific boats that were recorded as Illyrian by Romans, and still have some traditions that Romans noted as Illyrian, like training of marines on Neretva river on light fast boats

I presume you are referring to the Illyrian-liburnians as these croatians

 

[Милан М.]

The celts and illyrians of Noricum where trading with the greeks in steel/iron weapons via the danube river into the black sea and to greece. They did not need to reach the Adriatic even though some ancient Greeks thought the Danube flowed into the adriatic sea.

Which Celts and Illyrians in 7th-9th century?

 

[Милан М.]

The map is further proof that the venedi mountains are in old prussia and not where Jordanes says the carpathians mountains.

The Ve Ne Dae ( venedi ) lived along the coast, who where insignificant people in ancient times but becoming prominent in the middleages when they where renamed the Warmians ( in exactly the same place as the Venedi )

As the Greek ending of AE for the tribal names is agreeable that it means many ...........but am I reading Ma Ev Ro Pae as Maevropae which I do not understand.

Jordanes didn't had to say much about them,he was dealing with Sklavenoi.

 

[Sile]

Which Celts and Illyrians in 7th-9th century?

halstatt in noricum

 

[mihaitzateo]

Well if it was a mass-migration of some people from Proto-Slavic homeland,than we should see resemblances between maternal haplogroups also,between Slavic countries,right?
EDIT:
Let me add,no offense for Slavic people here,but in Russia,most often paternal line is R1A-Z280 which is actually of Baltic (Latvian,Lithuanian,Old Prussian) origins.
See what is posted above,about the fact there Latvian,Lithuanian are quite closed to Old Russian.

 

[Милан М.]

Antonio Sciarretta's Toponymy
Ancient Toponyms Last modified: September 25, 2010 Illyricum


Contents


The Roman province of Illyricum was bounded by the Ras^a river (toward Venetia), the river Drin (toward Macedonia), and the Adriatic sea. Toward Pannonia and Moesia in the interior the boundaries are less clear but they should have followed the mountain ranges of Velebit, Bosnia, and Montenegro.


From the river Ras^a to the river Zrmanja and then to the Krka, the land was inhabited by Iapydes and Liburni, from the Krka to the river Neretva, it was calledDalmatia, and from the Neretva to the Drin, Illyria proper (Barbara or Romana).
Common remarks: the place-names have been put in the nominative case, an asterisk * means not attested, reconstructed form. The late place-names of probable Latin origin have not been included. The IE roots are in the form given by Pokorny's Indogermanische Wörterbuch.
Liburnia


Aenona
Place: Nin, county Zadarska, Croatia
Name: Aenona (Ptol., Plin.)
Etymology: According to Udolph, the stem *aen- is the A-language counterpart of the IE root *ein-, an extension of *ei- 'to go'. Thus the name could be compared with hydronyms like Aenus fl. (Germania). The suffix -ona seems to be typically Liburnian.


Adra
Place: not identified
Name: Adra (Ptol.)
Etymology: The name, cited by Udolph also, is not confirmed by other sources than Ptolemy. However the resemblance with Adria (Venetia) is striking.


Albius m.
Place: not identified, Slovenia or Croatia
Name: Albius m. (Strab.)
Etymology: Clearly meaning 'white mount', from a local adjective from the IE root*albho- 'white'.


Alvona
Place: Labin/Albona, county Istarska, Croatia
Name: Alvona (Ptol., Plin., Peut.) Albona (Guid.)
Etymology: The suffix is typically Liburnian. The stem could be reconducted to an U-stem *alu- of the very productive IE root *al- 'to grow, nourish'. Alternatively, it may be compared with Latin alveus 'hole, river bed', which is explained by Pokorny as a metathesis from the IE root *aul- 'tube, hole'.


Arba
Place: island and town Rab/Arbe, county Primorsko-Goranska, Croatia
Name: Arba (Ptol.) Arba i. (Plin.)
Etymology: According to some Albanian scholar (Konitza), the name is related to 'Alba' or 'Arba, an ancient version of Albania, and it comes from Illyrian arb 'dark, green, wooded'. But possibly it was a local variant of the IE root *albho- 'white'.


Argyruntum
Place: Starigrad of Starigrad-Paklenica, county Zadarska, Croatia
Name: Argyruntum (Ptol., Plin.) Argeruntum (Guid.)
Etymology: The name is formally identical to Greek arguros 'glittering', which is from the IE root *ar(e)g'- 'glittering, white', from which various names of 'silver' also derived. The ending -untum is found in several Illyrian and Apulian place names.


Arupium
Place: Prozor of Otoc^ac, county Lic^ko-Senjska, Croatia
Name: Arupium (Peut.) Arupini (Strab.) Aruccia (?) (Ptol.)
Etymology: If Aruccia is the same town, it was compared by Villar with Arucci(Baetica). The version Arupium may be analyzed as *ar-up-, with the second part of the compound that is likely to be compared with the variant *up- of the IE root *ap- 'water, river', which seems to be very productive for hydronyms and to have various counterparts in the Baltic. The first part of the compound may be a zero-grade form of the IE root *er- 'to move'.


Asseria
Place: Benkovac, county Zadarska, Croatia
Name: Asseria (Plin., inscr.) Aseria (Peut.)
Etymology: To be compared with Assorus (Sicilia) and tentatively interpreted as a compound meaning 'dry stream', from the IE roots *as- 'to burn', and *ser- 'to flow'. According to others (Cimochowski), the initial as- would be from the *ak'-'sharp', and that would reveal the satem nature of the language of the Liburnians.


Assessia
Place: Bribir of Vinodolska, county Primorsko-Goranska, Croatia
Name: Assessia (Ptol.)
Etymology: The first part is likely to have the same meaning as in Asseria, i.e., 'dry'. The second part of the compound may be compared easily with Latin sessio'seat', which is a nominal construct *sed-ti- from the IE root *sed- 'to seat'. Thus the overall meaning could have been 'dry seat', i.e., 'dry place'.


Ausancalio
Place: not identified (inner Liburnia)
Name: Ausancali (Ptol.) Ausancalio (Peut.)
Etymology: Tentatively, the ending calio may be compared with Latin callum'cockle', and with a Gaulish word *callio possibly meaning 'stone', both from an IE root reconstructed as *kal- 'hard, blister'. Then the first term of the compound could be similar to the river name *Ausentus fl. (Samnium), i.e., from the IE root*aues- 'to shine', or *aus- 'to draw water', with the participe marker *-ent-represented by *-ant-. The overall meaning is reconstructed as *ausant-kalio, 'the rock by the shining (or the pouring) (stream)'.


Avendo
Place: Brlog of Otoc^ac, county Lic^ko-Senjska, Croatia
Name: Vendum (Strab.) Avendo (It. Ant.) Vendum (Peut.)
Etymology: The spelling Vend- should be preferred since the initial a- could be a later Latin prapeposition agglutinated. Tentatively the name could be related to the nasal form of the IE root *ueid- 'to see, know', like in the Gaulish adjective*vindos 'white'. Actually, the town belonged to the Iapodes, often related to the neighbouring Celtic Carni. Less likely, if the original spelling was Avend-, the IE root *au(e)- 'to flow' could be invoked, more precisely, a participe form *auent-'the flowing'.


Blanona
Place: not proveably Biograd na Moru, county Zadarska, Croatia (probably inner Liburnia)
Name: Blanona (Ptol.) Blandona (?)
Etymology: Possibly the non-Venetic counterpart of the name Flanona or, if the spelling Blandona is correct, derived from the IE root *bhlendh- 'pale, reddish'. The meaning would have been similar, and in any case consistent with the meaning of the present-day Biograd 'white town'. The -an- in the name comes from a sonant n. Compare with Blanda in a possibly related domain.


Clambetae
Place: Cvijina Gradina of Obrovac, county Zadarska, Croatia
Name: Clambetae (Peut.)
Etymology: Compare with Clampetia (Bruttium) in an Italic domain. This toponym belongs to a series of striking similarities between Liburnian and Eastern-Italic placenames (see e.g., Lacinium, Ortopla). It should thus be attributed to the Venetic stratum.


Flanona
Place: Plomin/Fianona of Labin/Albona, county Istarska, Croatia
Name: Flanona (Ptol., Plin.)
Etymology: Another possibly Venetic name showin an initial f-, which is a distinguishing mark. Compare with Blanona, its non-Venetic counterpart, and with*Flamonia (Venetia). These are possibly from the IE root *bhle-, a variant of*bhel(e)- 'shining, white'.


Fulfinium
Place: Omis^alj, county Primorsko-Goranska, Croatia
Name: Fulfinium (Ptol.)
Etymology: The structure of the name recalls that of Fulginium (Umbria). The initial f- is Venetic, akin to Italic. The intermediate f also should derive from an aspirated voiced stop.


Iader
Place: Zadar, county Zadarska, Croatia
Name: Iader (Ptol., Plin., Mel., It. Mar.) Iadora (Guid.)
Etymology: According to Georgiev, the name is explained as *ioudh-ro-, from the IE root *ieudh- 'to move swiftly, to fight'. A different possibility is that the place name reflects the extension *ad-ro- of the IE root *ad(u)- 'water current', in a language where initial *a->ia-. This language could have been akin to Daco-Mysian, where this phonetic development has been postulated. The same development could have been responsible for the pair Apuli vs. Iapygi in Apulia, a region highly related to the Illyrian domain. For the distinction of a Daco-Mysian stratum and a Liburnian/Venetic one, compare with Adra.


*Lacinium
Place: not identified
Name: *Lacinium from Lacinienses (Plin.)
Etymology: To be compared with Lacinium pr. (Bruttium).


Lopsica
Place: Lopar of Novi Vinodolski, county Primorsko-Goranska, Croatia
Name: Lopsica (Ptol., Plin.) Ampsi (Scyl.)
Etymology: The town took its name from that of the tribe Lopsi, which recalls the Greek gloss lops 'chlamys' (Hes.)


Monetium
Place: possibly Brinje, county Lic^ko-Senjska, Croatia
Name: Monetium (Strab.)
Etymology: Clearly belonging to an O-language stratum, the name also shows a typical suffix -et-. A possible explaination is from the IE root *men- 'to tower', i.e., 'the towering (place)'.


Metulum
Place: Vinic^ica of Josipdol, county Karlovac^ka, Croatia
Name: Metulum (Strab., Dio Cass.) Metulium (Appian.)
Etymology: Possibly related to the IE root *met- "in the middle'.


Nedinum
Place: Nadin of Zadar, county Zadarska, Croatia
Name: Nedinum (Ptol., Plin., Peut.)
Etymology: A number of hydronyms showing the stem *ned-/nid- are explained with an IE root *ned- 'to sound, roar' or another root *neid- 'to flow, stream'. According to Udolph, the root to be reconstructed is the latter.


Oeneus fl.
Place: river Rjecina, county Primorsko-Goranska, Croatia
Name: Oeneus fl. (Ptol.)
Etymology: Likely an O-grade form of the extension *ei-n- of the IE root *ei- 'to go', which is found in many hydronyms like Aenus fl. (Germania). Since the nameOen(e)us contrasts with the A-form found in Aenona, the former could either be a Grecized version, influenced by the mythical character of Oeneus, king of Calydon, or the Venetic (O-language) counterpart of the A-language name.


*Olbona
Place: not identified
Name: *Olbona from Olbonenses (Plin.)
Etymology: The name, if correct, shows a typical ending -ona found in both sides of the Adriatic, and an O-language stem, which may tentatively compared with Greek olbos 'luck' or even with the IE root *albho- 'white'. Notice that the shift*a>o could have been Slavic.


Ortopla
Place: Stinica of Senj, county Lic^ko-Senjska, Croatia
Name: Ortopla (Ptol.) Ortoplinia (Plin.) Osi-Pedetae (Scyl.)
Etymology: The name is maybe a compound, with the first term that may be compared with Ortona (Samnium) in a related domain, and the second term that is likely an appellative meaning 'town'. This derives from the IE root reconstructed as *pel- 'full, to fill, to pour, town'.


Senia
Place: Senj, county Lic^ko-Senjska, Croatia
Name: Senia (Ptol., Plin., Peut.) Attienites (Scyl.)
Etymology: The name may be compared with those of Sena Gallica (Umbria) andSena (Etruria). The most likely meaning seems to be that of 'the old (town)', from the IE root *sen(o)- 'old'.


Stulpi
Place: possibly Slunj, county Karlovac^ka, Croatia
Name: Stulpi (Ptol., Plin.) Stolpum (Porph.)
Etymology: The name may be compared with Stulni (Apulia) and derived from the zero-grade of the IE root *stel- 'to put, place', with the development of sonant linto ul that should be regarded as Illyrian.


Tarsatica
Place: Trsat of Rijeka, county Primorsko-Goranska, Croatia
Name: Tarsatica (Ptol., Plin.) Tharsaticum (Guid.) Idassa (Scyl.)
Etymology: Possibly from a tribe name *Tarsati, like Lopsica is from Lopsi. In turn, Tarsati may derive from an older hydronym, to be compared with Tarsium(Pannonia), Tarracina (Latium), and thus with the IE root *ters- 'dry, thirst'.


Tedanius fl.
Place: river Zrmanja, county Zadarska, Croatia
Name: Tedanius fl. (Ptol.) Telavius fl. (Plin.)
Etymology: Unknown.


Tediastum
Place: not identified
Name: Tediastum (Ptol.)
Etymology: The stem seems to be kin to Tedanius fl. The ending -asto- has some counterparts in Greece and Southern Illyria.


Terponus
Place: not identified, county Karlovac^ka, Croatia
Name: Terponus (Appian.)
Etymology: Tentatively related to the extension *(s)terp- of the IE root *(s)ter-'stiff, solid'. Clearly originated from an O-language like that of the Iapodes should have been.


Titius fl.
Place: river Krka, county S^ibensko-Kninska, Croatia
Name: Titus fl. (Ptol.) Titius fl. (Plin.)
Etymology: Similarly to Titus fl. (Lugdunensis), the origin could be the IE root*tei- 'to melt, dissipate, decay'. One Greek name for the river was Catarbates(Scyl.), i.e., the 'steeply-falling'.


Vegium
Place: close to Karlobag, county Lic^ko-Senjska, Croatia
Name: Vegia (Ptol.) Vegium (Plin.)
Etymology: Likely related to the IE root *ueg'- 'fresh, strong' with the meaning of 'the strong' or 'the guard post'. This etymology would confirm that the language of Liburnia was not a satem language.


Volcera
Place: Bakar, county Primorsko-Goranjska, Croatia
Name: Volcera (Ptol.)
Etymology: Similarly to Volci (Etruria) and Volcei (Lucania), the name may be derived from the IE root *uelk- 'wet, damp'.


Isles near Liburnia


Absorrus i., Absortium, Apsyrtides i.
Place: island Los^inj/Lussino (Absorrus i.), the same with island Cres/Cherso(Apsyrtides i.), Osor of Mali Los^inj (Absortium), county Primorsko-Goranska, Croatia
Name: Apsorrus i. (Ptol.) Absortium (Plin.) Apsyrtides i. (Strab.)
Etymology: Compare with the name Absyrtus, brother of Medea in the myth of the Argonauts, and with the related Absarus fl. in Colchis. Likely, the name derives from the IE root *ap- 'water, river' or from the concurrent IE root *ab-'water, river'. A possible reconstruction is *abs-stor-io 'water land', which could explain both the forms with -rr-<*-ri- and the metathesized forms with *-rt-. The compund second term would thus be an O-grade of the IE root *(s)ter- 'stiff, solid'. This etymology requires a language that preserved mobile *s- and that exhibited the shift *ri>rr like Messapian.


Crepsa i.
Place: island Cres/Cherso, county Primorsko-Goranska, Croatia
Name: Crepsa i. (Ptol.) Crexi i. (Plin.)
Etymology: The name may be alanlyzed as *krep-sa, with the stem that possibly reflects the extension *(s)ker-p- of the IE root *(s)ker- 'to cut'. The name has been long compared by the pan-illyrists with Albanian karpe 'rock'.


Curicta i., Curicum
Place: island Krk (Curicta i.), Krk (Curicum), county Primorsko-Goranska, Croatia
Name: Curicta i. (Ptol., Plin., Caes.) Cyrictica i. (Strab.) Curica i. (Peut.)
Etymology: A tentative explaination may be from a compound *kur-ekw- 'island of the north wind', from a word meaning 'north wind' derived from the IE root *(s)k'euero- 'north, north wind', and the zero-grade form of the root *akwa-'water, river'. In this case, the centum feature of the language spoken in Liburnia would be confirmed.


Fertina i.
Place: not identified
Name: *Fertina i. from Fertinates (Plin.)
Etymology: Possibly to be compared with Dertona (Liguria), that is, from the IE root *dher- 'to hold, support', in a language where *dh>f like in Italic. This language could likely have been Venetic.


Gissa i., Cissa
Place: island Pag (Gissa i.), Caska of Novalja (Cissa), county Lic^ko-Senjska, Croatia
Name: Cissa i., Gissa i. (Plin.)
Etymology: It is not clear whether it is the same as Cissa i. (Histria). The variant with initial g may be explained with the IE root *geis-, an extension of *gei- 'to turn, bend'. Stephanus Byzantinus mentions a Phrygian word gissa 'stone', also explained with the IE root *g'eis- 'gravel'. If the latter is the origin of the placename Gissa, this must have been happened in a centum-language.


Lissa i.
Place: island Dugi Otok, county Zadarska, Croatia
Name: Lissa i. (Plin.)
Etymology: See under Lissus.


Dalmatia


Adrium m.
Place: mountain range Dinara Planina, Croatia-Bosnia and Herzegovina
Name: Adrium m. (Strab.)
Etymology: Possibly the name is related to Sanskrit adri 'stone', which reflects a long sonant nasal *ned-ri-, from the dubious IE root *end- 'stone'. Therefore, it is not related to the name of the Adriatic sea and to Adria (Venetia)


Aequum
Place: Citluk of Sinj, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Aequum (Ptol., Peut., It. Ant.)
Etymology: The name has exact counterparts in Aequum Tuticum (Hirpinia) andAequum Faliscum (Etruria) and in the Latin word aequum 'plain'. Since Aequumwas a Roman colony, founded by the emperor Claudius, a Latin origin of the name is likely.


Aleta
Place: not identified
Name: Aleta (Ptol.)
Etymology: The name is not confirmed by other sources than Ptolemy. However the resemblance with Aletium (Apulia) is striking. Another Aleta is mentioned by Ptolemy in Sicily. A town Halata (Peut.) was in present-day Montenegro. These long-range resemblances, and the comparison with Baltic hydronyms, were among the strongest arguments of the "pan-Illyrian" scholars.


Andetrium
Place: Gornji Muc^ of Muc^, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Andecrium (Ptol.) Andetrium (Plin.) Andretium (Strab., Peut.)
Etymology: The name recalls various Gaulish placenames compounded with the intensive prefix ande, which is from IE *ne-dhi-, an extension of *en- 'in'. Alternatively, Andetrium could be explained as a deverbal noun from the IE root*andh- 'to grow, bloom, blossom', possibly meaning 'field' or something similar.


Arauzona
Place: Velika Mrdakovica of Vodice, county S^ibensko-Kninska, Croatia
Name: Arauzona (Ptol.) Arausiona (Guid.)
Etymology: The name may be compared with Arausio (Narbonensis) and Araurus fl. (Narbonensis). These are possibly compounds with an prefix *ar- that could be the zero-grade reflex of the hydronimic IE root *er- 'to move'. The stem could be possibly derived from the IE root *aus- 'to draw water'.


Aronia, Mucurum
Place: Makarska, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Aronia (Peut., Rav.) Aronix (Guid.) Mucurum (late antiquity source)Mucrum (Rav., Porph.)
Etymology: The former name can be tentatively reconducted to the IE root *er-'to move'. The latter is likely related to the IE root *meuk- 'to slide, slip' and thus have designated a 'wet, swampy place'. An indication of the linguistic stratum may be given from the suffix -ur- representing a sonant *r.


Bariduum
Place: not identified, probably in Bosnia and Herzegovina
Name: Bariduum (Peut.)
Etymology: Unknown. Tentatively, it could be compared with Germanic words for 'border, edge', which are from the IE root *bheredh- 'to cut, board'.


Bathinus fl.
Place: river Bosna, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Name: Bathinus fl. (Vell. Pat.)
Etymology: The hydronym belongs to a series *bat that includes Batinus fl.(Picenum), Bathis fl. (Sicilia), Bathynias fl. (Thracia). An hydronymic stem *bat-may be assumed, but its origin is unknown. Possibly, it is related to the IE root*bhedh- 'to pierce, dig', from whence also Padus fl. (Liguria), with a different dissimilation of the aspirated stops. However, the presence of aspirated t inBathinus fl. is problematic.


Bigeste
Place: Humac of Ljubus^ki, canton Zapadnohercegovac^ki, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Name: Bigeste (Peut.) Biston (Guid.)
Etymology: Possibly a compound *bhigwes-ste 'clear place', from the IE root*bheigw- 'to shine'. Compare with Bigerra (Tarraconensis)


Billubium
Place: Lokvic^ic^i, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Billubium (Peut.)
Etymology: Unknown.


Bistua Vetus, Bistua Nova
Place: Varvara of Prozor-Rama, canton Hercegovac^ko-Neretvanski (Bistua Vetus), possibly Zenica, canton Zenic^ko-Dobojski (Bistua Nova), Bosnia and Herzegovina
Name: Bistue Vetus, Bistue (Peut.)
Etymology: Unknown.


Burnum
Place: Ivos^evci of Kistanje, county S^ibensko-Kninska, Croatia
Name: Burnum (Ptol., Plin.)
Etymology: Possibly a construct *bher-no- 'mouth' from the IE root *bher- 'to scrape, cut'. The meaning of the placename is thus 'mouth (of a valley, a river, etc.)'. Another possible meaning is that of 'cavity, crevice, gap'.


Collentum, Collentum i.
Place: Gradina of Murter (Collentum), island Murter (Collentum i.), countyS^ibensko-Kninska, Croatia
Name: Collentum (Ptol.) Colentum i. (Plin.) Celentum (Rav.)
Etymology: Likely to be compared with Latin collis 'hill' (the settlement was situated at the feet of a hill), which is from the IE root *kel- 'to tower, be higher, hill'.


Corinium
Place: Donji Karin of Benkovac, county Zadarska, Croatia
Name: Corinium (Ptol., Plin.)
Etymology: The name has counterparts in other O-language domains, such asCorinium (Britannia), Corinum (Hirpinia), Cora (Latium), and Coria (Britannia). A possible interpretation is from the IE root *(s)ker- 'to cut'.


Delminium
Place: not proveably Duvno, canton Zapadnohercegovac^ki, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Name: Delminium (Ptol.) Dalmium (Strab.)
Etymology: To be compared (Georgiev) with Dalmisium and with other place-names showing an initial *delm-/dalm- (the latter form being a zero-grade variant of the former). This stem has been long recognized as related to Albaniandelme 'sheep', which is from an l-extension of the IE root *dhe(i)- 'to suck'.


Drinus fl.
Place: river Drina, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Name: Drinus fl. (Ptol., Peut.) Drino fl. (Plin.) Arion fl. (Scyl.)
Etymology: see under Drilo fl..


Enderum
Place: not identified (inland Dalmatia)
Name: Enderum (Ptol.)
Etymology: Tentatively compared with Endidae (Venetia) and with the dubious IE root *end- 'stone'.


Epetium
Place: Stobrec^ of Split, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Epetium (Ptol., Plin., Peut.)
Etymology: The initial ep- could be a preposition epi 'by', compare withEpidaurum, or possibly the local name for the 'horse', to be compared with Celticepos. The ending is common in the Illyrian domain, see Andetrium and Aletium(Apulia).


Ludrum
Place: Lovrec', county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Ludrum (late antiquity source)
Etymology: Usually (Pokorny, etc.) related to Greek luthron 'defilement' and thus to the IE root *leu- 'dirt'. The name is often compared by the pan-illyrists with Albanian lum 'mud', which is from the same root above.


Nareste
Place: possibly close to Dugi Rat, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Nareste (Plin.) Nerente ? (Guid.)
Etymology: A formation with the locative suffix -ste, from a stem that may have the same origin as in Naro fl..


Narona
Place: Vid of Metkovic', county Dubrovac^ko-Neretvanska, Croatia
Name: Narona (Ptol., Plin., Mel., Cic., Peut., Guid.)
Etymology: A town on the Naro fl.


Nestus fl.
Place: possibly a different name for river Cetina
Name: Nestus fl. (Scyl.)
Etymology: According to Pokorny, the hydronym reflects the IE root *ned- 'to sound, roar' as a feature of the river's waters.


Ninia
Place: Spas of Knin, county S^ibensko-Kninska, Croatia
Name: Ninia (Strab.)
Etymology: Unknown.


Oneum, *Almo
Place: Omis^, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Oneum (Plin., Peut., Guid.) Onaeum (Ptol.) *Almo (inferred from the survival of the name)
Etymology: Oneum is from another O-language name, without clear counterparts. The later name *Almo is considered by Skok as related to a *Dalmisium (possibly reconstructed from the Venetian name of the town, Almissa) which would be a clear countepart of Delminium. However, *alm- is a known toponymical stem, explained by Pokorny as an extension *alm- of the IE root *al- 'to grow, nourish', and found also in Alma fl. (Etruria) and Almus fl. (Thracia).


Osinium
Place: Sinj, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: inferred from the survival of the name (?) Sinotium (Strab.)
Etymology: Like for other hydronyms and place names showing the *os- stem, two possible derivations are from the IE root *aues- 'to shine' and *ous- 'mouth'.


Pasinum
Place: Padjene of Ervenik, county S^ibensko-Kninska, Croatia
Name: Pasinum (Plin.) Pazin(...) (inscr.)
Etymology: A possible Slavic etymology (thus implying an earlier Slavic presence in the interior of Dalmatia and, possibly, Liburnia): from the IE root *pak'- (*pag'-) 'to repair, strengthen', with *k'>s or *g'>z) as in satem languages, and in particular Slovenian paz^ 'gap, groove'. In this respect, the variant Pacinum ofPucinum (Histria) could have been a centum (i.e., Venetic) counterpart.


Pelva
Place: Kablic of Livno, canton Zapadnohercegovac^ki, Bosnia and Hercegovina
Name: Pelva (It. Ant.)
Etymology: Likely derived as *pele-u-a from the IE root *pel(e)- 'full, to fill, to pour, town' or *pel- 'wide and flat'.


Pituntium
Place: Podstrana, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Pituntium (Ptol.) Petuntium (Plin.)
Etymology: The name may be compared with Pitinum (Samnium), in a closely related domain, which could be derived from the IE root *peit-, an extension of*pei- 'fat, milk'. The ending -untum may reflect the zero-grade form of the IE suffix *-uent- 'rich of'. The development of sonant n into un seems typical of Central Illyria and its counterparts in Apulia.


Promona
Place: Tepljuh of Drnis^ or Promina, county S^ibensko-Kninska, Croatia
Name: Promona (Strab., Peut.)
Etymology: Another name ending with the typical Illyrian suffix -ona. But maybe in this case the name should be analyzed as *pro-mon, i.e., 'in front of the hill', from the praeposition *pro 'before, in front of', and an appellative reflecting the IE root *men- 'to tower'.


Salona
Place: Solin, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Salonae (Ptol.) Salona (Plin., Mel., Peut., It. Mar., Guid.) Salo (Strab.)
Etymology: Possibly derived from the very productive IE root *sal- 'salt, salty water', as meaning 'the maritime (town)'. However, a concurrent possibility to many of the names showing the stem *sal- consists of a comparison with Lithuanian sala 'town' and Old High German sal 'dwelling', after which an IE root was reconstructed as *sel-.


Scardona
Place: Skradin, county S^ibensko-Kninska, Croatia
Name: Scardona (Ptol., Plin., Strab., Peut., Guid.)
Etymology: Likely related to Scardus m. (Moesia), Lithuanian skardus 'cliffy, scarped', and thus to the IE root *(s)ker-d(h)-, an extension of *(s)ker- 'to cut'. The meaning is thus '(town on the) scarped (place)'.


Sicum
Place: not provably S^ibenik, county S^ibensko-Kninska, Croatia
Name: Sicum (Ptol.)
Etymology: Formally, it could represent an appellative derived from the IE root*sei-kw-, an extension of *sei- 'to be damp, to drip'.


Siparuntum
Place: not identified
Name: Siparuntum (Ptol.)
Etymology: The stem has an exact counterpart in Sipparis (Histria) and in the Gaulish Siparis fl., explained by Pokorny as derived from the IE root *seikw- 'to spill, pour, draft'. The ending -unt- is compatible with the postulated 'Illyrian' phonetics and has several counterparts in the 'Illyrian' stratum of Apulia.


Tariona
Place: not provably Drvenik Veli of Split, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Tariona (Plin.)
Etymology: The island was known in mediaeval times as Zirona and variants. Pliny mentions also a tribe Tariotes, from which the town could have taken its name. In turn, Tariotes may derive from an older hydronym *Tarius, to be compared with Tarus fl. (Cispadana) and thus with the IE root *ter- 'to cross, transgress, to stay'.


Tilurius fl., Tilurium
Place: river Cetina (Tilurius fl.), Gardun of Trilj (Tilurium), county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Tilurius fl. (?) Tilurium (Peut.)
Etymology: According to Pokorny, the name belongs to a huge series of hydronyms derived from various extensions of the IE root *tei- 'to melt, dissipate, decay'. The suffix -ur- may be reconducted to the IE extension *(a)uer-'water, rain, flow', or be an agent suffix, *til-ro-io.


Tragurium
Place: Trogir, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Tragurium (Ptol., Plin., Strab., Mel., Peut., Guid.)
Etymology: Anreiter suggests that the name belongs to a series *trag- reflecting the IE root *tragh- 'to drag, move, run', with the possible meaning of 'harbor'. The suffix -urio- may be compared with that of Tilurius fl.


Tribulium
Place: Trebinje, region Trebinje, Bosnia and Hercegovina
Name: Tribulium (Plin.)
Etymology: The name may be analyzed as tri-bulium, or the place of the 'three hills', from the numeral 'three' (*trei-) and an appellative derived from the IE root *b(h)eu- 'to swell, puff'.


Varvaria
Place: Bribinska Glavica of Skradin, county S^ibensko-Kninska, Croatia
Name: Varvaria (Ptol., inscr.)
Etymology: It is not clear if the Varvarini of Pliny, a Liburnian tribe, referred to the same town. Tentatively, the Varvarini might have been 'the lesser *Varvari' and similarly Varvaria 'the town of the *Varvari. The latter were named 'the squirrels', from a reduplication form *uer-uer- of the IE root reconstructed as*uer- 'squirrel, etc.'


Isles near Dalmatia


Bova i.
Place: island C^iovo, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Bova i. (Plin.) Boa i. (Peut.)
Etymology: Unknown. Possibly related to the IE root *bheu- 'to be, grow', or to*b(h)eu- 'to swell, puff', or even to *gwou- 'cattle' (but this stem alone without suffixes or compound terms would be problematic).


Brattia i., Elaphusa i.
Place: island Brac^, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Brattia i. (Plin., Peut.) Elaphusa i. (Steph. Byz.) Bretanidis i. (Steph. Byz.)Cratiae (Scyl.)
Etymology: A local legend relates the name with the Greek region of Ambracia, from which the first colonizers had come. From the Greek name Elaphusameaning 'island of the deers', it is possible to explain also the other forms as related to the IE root *bhren- 'horn' and in particular to the name of the 'deer',*bhren-to- 'the horned'.


Issa i.
Place: island Vis, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Issa i. (Ptol., Plin., Scyl.)
Etymology: Unknown.


Pharia i.
Place: island Hvar, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Pharia i. (Ptol., Plin.) Pharos i. (Strab., Scyl.)
Etymology: Founded by Greek settlers from the island of Paros (Cyclades).


Solentia i.
Place: island S^olta, county Splitsko-Dalmatinska, Croatia
Name: Solentia (Plin., Peut., Rav.) Olyntia (Scyl.)
Etymology: The stem *sol-, clearly belonging to an O-language, may be derived from the IE root *suel- 'foot, sole, ground'. This is a good etymology for an 'island', while a derivation from the other IE root *selos 'swamp, sea' seems not semantically supported.


Illyria Romana


Acruvium
Place: Grbalj of Kotor, state Montenegro, Serbia and Montenegro
Name: Acruvium (Ptol.) Acruium (Plin.)
Etymology: Possibly to be analysed as *akro-ouio-, from the IE root *ak'ro-, an extension of the root *ak'- 'sharp'. Compare with Acumincum (Pannonia), in a domain often thought to be Illyrian. Both names belong to a "centum" language.


Anderva
Place: close to Niks^ic', state Montenegro, Serbia and Montenegro
Name: Sanderua (Peut.)
Etymology: Unknown.


Asamum
Place: Lapada of Dubrovnik, county Dubrovac^ko-Neretvanska, Croatia
Name: Asamum (Peut.)
Etymology: Usually compared with Asamus fl. (Moesia) and explained as thesatem reflex of *ak'es-men 'stony', from the IE root *ak'- 'sharp'. This is one of the strongest arguments in favor of the satem character of the language spoken in (southern, at least) Dalmatia.


Assidium
Place: possibly Trebinje, republic Srpska, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Name: Adzizium (Peut.) Assidium (Guid.)
Etymology: Usually analyzed as *ad zizium and explained as a name meaning 'goat', from the IE root *g'haido- 'goat'. This is considered one of the proofs that the "Illyrian" language was satem, since *g'h>z in satem languages. However the same IE root is often reconstructed as *ghaido- since it does not have any sure satem cognates.


Birziminium
Place: Podgorica, state Montenegro, Serbia and Montenegro
Name: Birziminium (It. Ant.) Bersumnum (Peut.) Burzumon (Rav.) Bermezium(Proc.)
Etymology: Usually (Ribezzo, Meyer) explained from the IE root *bher(e)g'h-'high, mountain', with the shift *g'h>z typical of satem languages. Another possible explaination is from a satem word for 'birch', similarly to Lithuanianberzas, from the IE root *bhereg'- 'to shine, white'. In any case, compare withBersamae (Thracia), Berzobis (Dacia).


Butua
Place: Budva, state Montenegro, Serbia and Montenegro
Name: Butua (Ptol., Plin.) Buthoe (Steph. Byz., Scyl.) Batua (Peut.) Budua(Guid.)
Etymology: According to Stephanus Byzantinus, the town was founded byCadmus of Thebes and named after its chariot driven by oxen, Greek bous, which is from the IE root *gwou- 'cattle'. Compare with Butuntum (Apulia), on the opposite side of the Adriatic sea.


Cattarus
Place: Kotor, state Montenegro, Serbia and Montenegro
Name: Cattarus (Proc.) Catharus (inscr.) Decadarum (Rav., Guid.) Decatera(Porph.)
Etymology: Unknown. The Latin syntagm de Cathar(o) was probably analyzed in medieval Greek sources as Dekadaro.


Chinna
Place: Klinë/Klina, region Kosova/Kossovo, Serbia and Montenegro
Name: Chinna (Ptol.)
Etymology: If ch<*g'h-, the name could derive from the IE root *g'hei- 'winter, snow', and in particular from its extension *g'hei-mn- 'cold, snow'. The shift*g'h>ch implies a centum language, though ch could represent the aspirated voiceless stop kh, as in Greek, or the aspiration h as, e.g., in Latin and Venetic.


Damastium
Place: not identified, possibly region Kosova/Kossovo (no silver mines in present-day Albania), Serbia and Montenegro
Name: Damastium (Strab.) Emastus ? (Proc.)
Etymology: Usually (Krahe, Mayer, etc.) explained with an A-language appellative*damas- meaning 'settlement' or similar, derived from the IE root *dem- 'to build, house'. The place name could derive from a tribe's name *Damasti, i.e.,*damas-ste. A concurrent root is *dhe- 'to put, place', from whence also Daco-Mysian dava 'fortress'. Both in the Daco-Mysian and in the "Illyrian" strata the IE*dh and *d shoud be reflected by d.


Daorsum
Place: Os^anic'i of Stolac, canton Hercegovac^ko-Neretvanski, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Name: Daorson (inscr.)
Etymology: From the tribe name Daorsi.


Diluntum
Place: Stolac, canton Hercegovac^ko-Neretvanski, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Name: Diluntum (Peut.)
Etymology: The ending -untum with the shift of the sonant nasal into un seems typically Illyrian. The stem may reflect the zero-grade of the l-extension *dhei-l-'sheep' of the IE root *dhe(i)- 'to suck', which is also the basis of Delminium. Therefore, the name could have originally meant 'shepherd hut'.


Doclea
Place: Duklja of Podgorica, state Montenegro, Serbia and Montenegro
Name: Doclea (Ptol.)
Etymology: Probably a local name later Grecized as Dioclea.


Drilo fl.
Place: river Drin, Albania
Name: Drilo fl. (Ptol., Strab.)
Etymology: It may be derived from the IE root *der- at the zero-grade *dr- 'to run'. Compare with other hydronyms on both sides of the Adriatic sea, Trinius fl.,Tirinus fl. (Samnium), and Drinus fl. (Illyria). By the substratists (UTET, De Giovanni), the name was explained from a stem *tir-/dir- with a hydronymic meaning.


Epicaria
Place: Pukë, district Pukë, Albania
Name: Epicaria (Ptol.)
Etymology: Likely a Greek name, similarly to the not identified Epidotium (Peut.).


Epidaurus
Place: C^avtat of Konavle, county Dubrovac^ko-Neretvanska, Croatia
Name: Epidaurus (Ptol., Plin.) Epitaurum (Peut., Guid.)
Etymology: From the name of Epidaurus in Argolis.


Labeatis lac.
Place: lake Shkodrës/Skadarsko, Albania/Montenegro
Name: Labeatis (Liv.)
Etymology: From the tribe name Labeati, which in turn may derive from a placename *Labea.


Leusinum
Place: Panik of Bilec'a, republic Srpska, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Name: Leusinum (Peut.) Leusinium (It. Ant.)
Etymology: Possibly reflecting a local appellative meaning 'stone', derived from the productive IE root *leu- 'stone'.


Lissus, Acrolissus
Place: Lezhë, district Lezhë, Albania
Name: Lissus (Ptol., Strab.) Lissum (Plin., Guid.)
Etymology: Compare with the Liburnian island Lissa i., whose name recalls in turn that of Issa i.. A tentative root-etymology could be from the IE root *leis- 'furrow, to furrow, to pursue, learn', as *leis-sio-, showing the suffix -sio- that is considered as typically Illyrian.


*Maluntum
Place: Molunat of Konavle, county Dubrovac^ko-Neretvanska, Croatia
Name: *Maluntum (inferred from the survival of the name)
Etymology: Mentioned by Krahe and Pokorny as a place name related to Albanianmal 'hill' and thus to the IE root *mel- 'to appear, come up'. The Albanian word could be just a cognate, and the a in the stem be derived from a zero-grade form.


Meteon
Place: Medun of Podgorica, state Montenegro, Serbia and Montenegro
Name: Meteon (Liv.)
Etymology: Possibly related to the IE root *met(a)-, an extension of *me- 'in the middle of, by, around, with'. The original meaning could have been '(the place in) the middle', i.e, 'the place of the covenant'.


Naro fl.
Place: river Neretva, Croatia-Bosnia and Herzegovina
Name: Naronus fl. (Ptol.) Naro fl. (Strab., Cat., Scyl.)
Etymology: Usually (Pokorny) considered as one of the prototypes of the IE root*ner- 'to conceal, cover, hiding place, hollow'. Compare with Nar fl. and with many Slavic and Baltic place names. The a vowel in the stem may be explained as the reflex of a very old IE stratum (Old European), which is typical of hydronyms.


Pardua
Place: Zamaslina of Ston, county Dubrovac^ko-Neretvanska, Croatia
Name: Pardua (Peut.)
Etymology: Tentatively, the name may be related to the IE root *pezd- 'to break wind' or *perd- 'to fart', from a feature of the site. The ending -ua is found also in Butua.


Rhizinium, Rhizonicus sin., Rhizon fl.
Place: Risan (Rhizinium), bay of Boka Kotorska (Rhizonicus sin.), river Risan(Rhizon fl.), state Montenegro, Serbia and Montenegro
Name: Risium (Ptol.) Rhizinium (Plin.) Risio (Strab.) Rhizon (Liv., Polyb.)Resinum (Peut.) Rhizonicus sin. (Ptol.) Rhizon fl. (Polyb.)
Etymology: By Jokl the name was related to Albanian rrjedh 'to flow' and tus to the IE root *reg'- 'damp, rain'. This explaination would imply a satem *g'>z. However Barich related the name to Middle High German risel 'rain' and thus to the extension *rei-s- of the IE root *rei- 'to flow' (in turn a possible basis derived from the IE root *er- 'to move'). This is actually the most likely interpretation, since the variants of the name with z might have been influenced by the Greek noun riza, rizion 'root'.


Salluntum
Place: not identified, state Montenegro, Serbia and Montenegro
Name: Salluntum (Peut., It. Ant.)
Etymology: The name of this town is probably related to the tribe of the Sallentiniin Apulia. The ending -untum is typically Illyrian.


Salthua
Place: not identified, state Montenegro, Serbia and Montenegro
Name: Salthua (inscr.)
Etymology: The ending -ua is diffused in the area, see Butua. The stem salt(h)-mat be reconducted to the IE root *sel- 'to spring ' as an appellative 'spring'. A derivation from the IE root *sal- 'salt, salty water' is less likely because the town was not on the sea.


Scodra
Place: Shkodër, district Shkodër, county Skhodër, Albania
Name: Scodra (Ptol., Plin., Liv., Peut.) Codras (Guid.)
Etymology: To be analysed as *skod-ra. The name may recall the IE root *(s)ked- 'to crush, scatter', possibly with the meaning of 'crevice, fork'. Obviously the origin of the place name is within an O-language.


Thermidava
Place: not identified
Name: Thermidava (Ptol.)
Etymology: This twon was located in the inner part of the province of Illyria, in or close to Dardania (roughly present-day Kosovo). According to Georgiev, the name is clearly Daco-Mysian since it shows the typical compound word dava 'town'. The Daco-Mysian stratum extended westward until Dardania and Moesia Superior. The stem therm- could be a Grecized form.


Ulcinium
Place: Stari Ulcinj, state Montenegro, Serbia and Montenegro
Name: Ulcinium (Ptol., Peut.) Olcinium (Plin.)
Etymology: According to Pliny, Ulcinium ...quod antea Colchinium dictum est... has been founded by the Colchi. This is considered an earlier folk-etymology, and the name Ulcinium is related by Pokorny, Georgiev, etc. to a local name of the 'wolf', cognate of Albanian ulk from the IE root *ulekw-os 'wolf'.


Isles near Illyria


Corcyra Nigra
Place: island Korc^ula, county Dubrovac^ko-Neretvanska, Croatia
Name: Corcyra Nigra (Melaena) (Ptol., Plin., Strab.)
Etymology: A Greek colony, it took its name from that of Corcyra i. (Graecia), and the specification from its dark pine forests.


Melita i.
Place: island Mljet, county Dubrovac^ko-Neretvanska, Croatia
Name: Melita i. (Ptol., Plin.)
Etymology: Usually considered, similarly to Melita i. (Africa), a Greek (or Grecized) name meaning 'honey', or possibly 'sweet' due to the presence of sweet water in the middle of the sea. Another explaination is to compare the names with some appellatives meaning 'sand' (and thus Melita as the 'sandy (island)'), derived from the IE root *mel- 'to grind, hit, fine, ground'.


Ladesta
Place: island Lastovo, county Dubrovac^ko-Neretvanska, Croatia
Name: Ladestris i. (Peut.) Ladesta i. (Steph. Byz.)
Etymology: A formation with the ending -ste, but the stem is unknown.


Conclusions


The linguistic situation of the Roman province of Illyricum is rather unclear and highly disputed between supporters of its (at least partly) satem feature. Moreover, this hypothetic satem language is often intepreted as to be the ancestor of the modern Albanian language.


Actually, toponymy suggests that there was at least one satem stratum, in Illyria proper and surprisingly in the inner part of southern Dalmatia (parts of today Hercegovina, Montenegro and Sandjak). However, this language cannot be the direct ancestor of Albanian for many reasons. It may tentatively be identified with a Mysian-like language. Continuity theory supporters would rather suggest that it should be identified with an early Slavic language, already present close to the historical Slavic domain.
In Liburnia, a Venetic stratum is easily recognizable for the typical presence of an ffrom PIE *bh, dh. As recognized by Georgiev and others, Venetic has nothing to do with "Illyrian".
In the rest of Liburnia, in Dalmatia, and in part of Illyria proper, a poorly characterized linguistic stratum may be reconstructed from some typical suffixes, like -etium from *-ent-, from the development of sonants like *n>un and generally for many points of contact with the opposite side of the Adriatic sea. especially Samnium and Apulia. This stratum has been called here Illyrian for what concerning Apulia. Possibly this group of languages coincides with the "Central Illyrian-Pannonian" of the classification (based on anthroponyms) of Katicic'.
by Antonio Sciarretta

 

[Милан М.]

Couldn't find some from Moesia any suggestions?

 

[Милан М.]

^All this are "pre Latin" i.e pre Roman conquest

 

[Taranis]

We determine one language faith because of Latin influence,didn't knew this,and you must mean the area of Dalmatia instead of Croatia proper.OCS has arround 150 Greek loanwords and loanwords from the extinct Dalmatian Latin,Why don't you explain other posts,about isoglosses and various other posts with Slavic names,with Slavic presence in Pannonia and Danube Basin that even predate the "Roman empire" you skip them,i can not constantly repeat myself,you are very wrong if you think that today science support any migrations from Chernoles in the 7th century, which impose language on half europe,gigantic genocide of half Europe!one must underestimate his own science,which two centuries fail to explain anything,Albanian was actualy within one family most probably with Slavic and Baltic,it is heavy influenced by Slavic like Romanian is,

I might point out, and no offense to you, I wasn't the one who adamantly denied that we actually have linguistic data from the Roman period (implying "the Slavs were hiding in blind sight from the Roman Empire"), until said person went forth and posted a list of toponyms from the Roman Balkans.

I never claimed - nor implied - that the early Slavs commited a "gigantic genocide on half of Europe". Converely, its more probable that the Proto-Slavs absorb large numbers of speakers of other languages, especially speakers of Germanic languages. This goes hand in hand with the linguistic evidence, namely that Proto-Slavic has a large share of Germanic loanwords, especially basic terminology relating to agriculture (words like "loaf" and "leek") and trade.

I might add, I'm not denying that Old Church Slavonic has loanwords from Greek - medieval Byzantine Greek that is, not archaic Greek), but its obvious from the relative chronology of the sound laws that these have to be substantially younger (off the top of my head, I can't think of a Greek loanword in Greek that adheres to the *a > *o shift in Slavic, while I can think of Germanic and Latin loanwords for which the same applies. If you think I'm wrong here, please correct me there. ).

Albanian doesn't have many Latin neither Greek loanwords don't know from where you have this,that's why in my knowledge Albanian doesn't evolve where is present now,but maybe you can correct me again,

Again, you're wrong. Albanian has a lot of loanwords from Latin, to give you a few examples of how wrong you are, I'll list you but a few:

Latin "amicus" > Albanian "mik" (friend)
Latin "aurum" > Albanian "ar" (gold)
Latin "argentum" > Albanian "argjend" (silver)
Latin "canis" > Albanian "qen" (dog)
Latin "civitas" > Albanian "qytët" (town, city)
Latin "fraxinus" > Albanian "frashër" (ash tree)
Latin "pisces" > Albanian "peshk" (fish)
Latin "pullus" > Albanian "pulë" (chicken)
Latin "vitulus" > Albanian "viç" (calf)

You also, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, have a few Greek loanwords, for example "mēlo" or "μηλο" > "mollë" (apple). Its very clear that unlike Proto-Slavic, Albanian very much evolved somewhere inside the Roman Balkans, but like I said, we don't know precisely which one of the so-called "Paleo-Balkan" languages was the actual ancestor of Albanian.

maybe you will explain the Balkanic Sprachbund as well in which many hypothesis was made,it was actualy enough of this one and same discussion,even the historian Jordanes describing the Veneti to the North/West,Antes to east confirm the Sklavenoi presence in the South.

The Balkan sprachbund is obviously younger. Otherwise you would see a strong link between both the West Slavic and East Slavic languages, not just South Slavic alone.

 

[Милан М.]

I might point out, and no offense to you, I wasn't the one who adamantly denied that we actually have linguistic data from the Roman period (implying "the Slavs were hiding in blind sight from the Roman Empire"), until said person went forth and posted a list of toponyms from the Roman Balkans.

I never claimed - nor implied - that the early Slavs commited a "gigantic genocide on half of Europe". Converely, its more probable that the Proto-Slavs absorb large numbers of speakers of other languages, especially speakers of Germanic languages. This goes hand in hand with the linguistic evidence, namely that Proto-Slavic has a large share of Germanic loanwords, especially basic terminology relating to agriculture (words like "loaf" and "leek") and trade.

I might add, I'm not denying that Old Church Slavonic has loanwords from Greek - medieval Byzantine Greek that is, not archaic Greek), but its obvious from the relative chronology of the sound laws that these have to be substantially younger (off the top of my head, I can't think of a Greek loanword in Greek that adheres to the *a > *o shift in Slavic, while I can think of Germanic and Latin loanwords for which the same applies. If you think I'm wrong here, please correct me there. ).



Again, you're wrong. Albanian has a lot of loanwords from Latin, to give you a few examples of how wrong you are, I'll list you but a few:

Latin "amicus" > Albanian "mik" (friend)
Latin "aurum" > Albanian "ar" (gold)
Latin "argentum" > Albanian "argjend" (silver)
Latin "canis" > Albanian "qen" (dog)
Latin "civitas" > Albanian "qytët" (town, city)
Latin "fraxinus" > Albanian "frashër" (ash tree)
Latin "pisces" > Albanian "peshk" (fish)
Latin "pullus" > Albanian "pulë" (chicken)
Latin "vitulus" > Albanian "viç" (calf)

You also, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, have a few Greek loanwords, for example "mēlo" or "μηλο" > "mollë" (apple). Its very clear that unlike Proto-Slavic, Albanian very much evolved somewhere inside the Roman Balkans, but like I said, we don't know precisely which one of the so-called "Paleo-Balkan" languages was the actual ancestor of Albanian.



The Balkan sprachbund is obviously younger. Otherwise you would see a strong link between both the West Slavic and East Slavic languages, not just South Slavic alone.

Yes indeed i post,you haven't read the conclusion,this wasn't Balkans but Illyricum,it is within Balkan peninsula,but Balkans is much wider area,none said that Slavic "evolved" within "Roman empire" that's your words over again,I had a post for the Balkanic sprachbund and the diffusion of the same words among the Slavic family for Tumulus for instance,Slavs were much later historical construct to talk about Slavs within the Roman empire.

 

[Sile]

Antonio Sciarretta's Toponymy
Ancient Toponyms Last modified: September 25, 2010 Illyricum


Contents


The Roman province of Illyricum was bounded by the Ras^a river (toward Venetia), the river Drin (toward Macedonia), and the Adriatic sea. Toward Pannonia and Moesia in the interior the boundaries are less clear but they should have followed the mountain ranges of Velebit, Bosnia, and Montenegro.


From the river Ras^a to the river Zrmanja and then to the Krka, the land was inhabited by Iapydes and Liburni, from the Krka to the river Neretva, it was calledDalmatia, and from the Neretva to the Drin, Illyria proper (Barbara or Romana).
Common remarks: the place-names have been put in the nominative case, an asterisk * means not attested, reconstructed form. The late place-names of probable Latin origin have not been included. The IE roots are in the form given by Pokorny's Indogermanische Wörterbuch.
Liburnia



by Antonio Sciarretta

This is what I was also taught ...............Neretva river to the drin river ( mostly modern Montenegro ) ............the Drin river was the limit of illyrian expansion southward, although some tribes where allowed further south by the macedonians to escape other illyrian tribes killing them......pathini tribe rings a bell as one that escaped southward

 

[Милан М.]

Ancient Rituals

Dodola




Dodola (also spelled Doda, Dudulya and Didilya, pronounced: doh-doh-la, doo-doo-lya, or dee-dee-lya), Perperuna or Preperuša is a pagan tradition found in the Balkans and among Slavs. A girl, wearing a skirt made of fresh green knitted vines and small branches, sings and dances through the streets of the village, stopping at every house, where the hosts pour water on her. She is accompanied by the people of the village who dance and shout on the music. The custom has attributed a specific type of dance and a specific melody.


According to some interpretations, Dodola is a Slavic goddess of rain and the wife of the supreme god Perun (who is the god of thunder). Slavs believed that when Dodola milks her heavenly cows, the clouds, it rains on earth. Each spring Dodola is said to fly over woods and fields, and spread vernal greenery, decorating the trees with blossoms.


The custom is known by two names, mostly spelled Dodola (dodole, dudula, dudulica, dodolă) and Perperuna (peperuda, peperuna, perperuna, prporuša, preporuša, păpărudă, pirpirună). Both names are used by the South Slavs and Romanians.


The name Perperuna is identified as a feminine personification of the great god Perun.Sorin Paliga suggested that it was a divinity from the local Thracian substratum.The name of Dodola is possibly cognate with the Lithuanian word for thunder: dundulis.


D. Decev compared the word "dodola" (also dudula, dudulica, etc.) with Thracian anthroponyms (personal names) and toponyms (place names), such as Doidalsos, Doidalses, Dydalsos, Dudis, Doudoupes, etc.Paliga argued that based on this, the custom most likely originated from the Thracians.


Ritual
South Slavs used to organise the Dodole (or Perperuna) festival in times of drought, where they worshipped the goddess and prayed to her for rain. In the ritual, young women sing specific songs to Dodola, accompanying it by a dance, while covered in leaves and small branches. In Croatia and Serbia today, Dodole is often performed by folklore groups.

In folklore of Turopolje on the holidays of St. Juraj called Jurjevo five most beautiful maidens are picked to portray Dodola goddesses in leaf-dresses and sing for the village till the end of the holiday.


Serbian ritual chant sung by youngsters going through the village in the dry, summer months.


Naša dodo Boga moli,


Da orosi sitna kiša,


Oj, dodo, oj dodole!


Mi idemo preko sela,


A kišica preko polja,


Oj, dodo, oj, dodole!


Dodole in Macedonia
The oldest record for Dodole rituals in Macedonia is the song "Oj Ljule" from Struga region, recorded in 1861.


The Dodole rituals in Macedonia were active held until the 1960s

If anyone has something from his region pls post something.