South Albania Tumulus DNA samples

Let's revisit this old leak.

PQTQLbY.png


The second batch gjergj mentioned has to be the Kamenica samples, which at the time was only a small sample size of 25. That begs the question about the other samples close to a 100, and there must have been even more samples since 2022, the comment is over two years old. We know from the Kamenica poster, over 225 samples will be coming from Kamenica site alone. It is safe to match that number of samples that must have been extracted from other sites. Chances are extremely high Kruja-komani samples have been collected and processed.
 
There are two BA R-PF7563 cluster's in Albania, one that has origins in northern Albania and one in southern Albania.

cZnmotC.png


The southern cluster is undoubtedly related to the Kamenica, matt-painted culture. There is also a northern cluster that is also pre-Illyrian and has it's origins in the Bronze Age. At what point Illyrians fully overcame the northern R-PF7563 block, is unknown until we get good sample coverage from MBA through EIA for northern Albania.
In modern Albanians, the northern cluster is part of Kruja-Komani heritage, a companion clade to J2b-l283. Rrenjet calls this Dibra-Mati cluster.

They are both founder effects that split with gheg and tosk during Roman empire. Ultimately the origin is ancient greek, either mycenaean or dorian
 
@PaleoRevenge, so you think South Illyrians were mainly R1b-PF7562 and R1b-Z2103 with J2b2-L283 to their north.

What happened to them? They were reduced in numbers during Early Middle Ages just before and during Slavic migrations then, and on top of it afterwards we see E-V13 migrations from somewhere in Central Balkans.
 
Any L584s in the Z2103s?
 
@PaleoRevenge, so you think South Illyrians were mainly R1b-PF7562 and R1b-Z2103 with J2b2-L283 to their north.

What happened to them? They were reduced in numbers during Early Middle Ages just before and during Slavic migrations then, and on top of it afterwards we see E-V13 migrations from somewhere in Central Balkans.

We don't have a good picture right now. Personally I would like to see samples from the smaller sites, because the less prestigious sites likely contain haplogroups of the lesser tribes like the Balkan BA derived I2 that was found in Apulia. It depends what you call southern Illyria, the Korce plain changed hand many times after Brygian collapse.
J2b-L283 was likely involved too in the expansion into southern Albania, but the bulk of the group had to have been R1B-Z2103. That Greek guy in Facebook who is J2b of the Vlach branch, probably goes back to this expansion in southern Albania. The brother branch of the Vlach one is in Mirdita.
oyCEOKd.png


I've seen Hammond connect these new burials in Kuc i Zi with Chaonians, who too only briefly held the area. The area seems to have become more of a vassal buffer zone later on.
 
Last edited:
@PaleoRevenge, so you think South Illyrians were mainly R1b-PF7562 and R1b-Z2103 with J2b2-L283 to their north.

What happened to them? They were reduced in numbers during Early Middle Ages just before and during Slavic migrations then, and on top of it afterwards we see E-V13 migrations from somewhere in Central Balkans.

Eupator's question got me thinking. Huban was certain some Brnjica people migrated into south Albania Kuc i Zi culture block. That singe Bronze Age R-Z2103 might be a Brnjica branch (BY611) and we might indirectly get a prelude to their profile, though they might be mixed in Kamenice.
And the candidates for these side branches of BY611 would be these Italians.
We might get an answer to this after the 225+ samples are processed.
 
Last edited:
In order to test this hypothesis high coverage aDNA samples are needed to confirm downstream clades beyond R1b-Z2103 or CTS1450 level or any other major clade of Z2103.

I favor a local Bronze Age origin but that is just my opinion I am emphasizing. I think there are good points speaking in favor of this. Deviates a lot from your proposal that I don't agree with, other than that, too, totally valid.

In the recent paper, there is one R-BY250 from Dalmatia
JTvJv4x.png


The appearance of R-BY250 in Kamenica, after 750 BC corresponds with Glasinac material culture and cannot be a coincidence. The new new sample agrees with what I suggested, R-BY250 being Illyrian, just not as common as J2b-L283. I maintain my original proposal, R-BY250 moves into J2b-L283 zone during MBA by the migration of Vatin(R-CTS1450) into the Drina river area forming the Vatin-variant culture and eventually fully assimilated into Illyrian and partook in Glasinac expansions. It should be more common inland among Illyrians.

Vatin itself must have had R-BY611 during it's late declining stage (1,700 BC), they migrated into Morava river valley forming Brnjica culture, and are the ancestors of the Paeoni.

----
Sk8wBP4.png
 
Last edited:

This thread has been viewed 14505 times.

Back
Top