Er Monnezza
Banned
- Messages
- 170
- Reaction score
- 121
- Points
- 43
^the latter PCA perfectly shows the mixed Sicilian-Greek cluster.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
My results from the Himera sample:
Distance to: Angela 8.72768010 Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 8.84477247 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20163 9.24968108 Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7223 9.61541471 Baucina_MtFalcone_Sicani_Med_lc:I13128 10.07039225 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13376 10.64036654 Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10950 11.48748885 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13391 11.96608541 Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7224 12.54354814 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13392 13.02239225 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13379 13.37797444 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13390 13.51600903 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13387 13.66643699 Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7225 14.01006424 Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870 14.18050070 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13381 14.19401634 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13395 14.32944870 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13382 14.54101097 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13384 14.75138977 Baucina_MtFalcone_Sicani_Med:I13125 14.99513588 Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7218 15.02451663 Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7217 15.09980132 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13389 15.11542590 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13383 15.12952412 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13386 15.13336050 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13380 15.22054204 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13394 15.35309741 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13393 15.63564517 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13377 15.77139816 Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10948 15.90871145 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13385 16.16957637 Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952 16.28912521 Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13378 16.79834218 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20162 16.81956301 Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945 18.57782549 Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17866 19.77844787 Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7219 20.44258301 Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med_lc:I17884 21.84456912 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20160 22.55855492 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166 22.83734223 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17881 24.53851055 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17887 24.62798408 Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7221 24.89996386 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20167 26.15365940 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20161 27.64459260 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17879 28.28553340 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I17432 29.71149104 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17878 30.91633711 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20168 39.45401754 Himera_480_BC_Battle_Eurasian-Steppe:I10947 39.65591759 Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872
Going by this, the Sicani were quite different from the inhabitants of the Greek colony of Himera.
I wish I could cross check the first six relatively close samples with the isotopic study, but I think the sample numbers are different. I'm not denying that they could all be from somewhere further north than Greece in the Balkans, ike MKD or MNE, since my matches with Bronze and Iron Age samples from there are quite good, but given we don't have very many samples of a similar age from Northern and Central Italy, I wonder if that's also a possibility?
Target: Angela
Distance: 0.3543% / 0.3543440139.2 Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc 27.6 Polizzello_Sicani_Med 21.9 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med 8.0 Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe 3.3 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc
Distance to: Angela 2.64665253 74.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 25.40% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17887 2.86805109 64.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 35.40% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13393 2.90797210 64.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 35.60% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13380 2.91086451 61.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 38.20% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7225 2.94301003 46.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952 + 53.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870 3.00824595 58.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870 + 41.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7219 3.04963808 63.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 36.60% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13384 3.10720701 64.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 35.60% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13383 3.14008340 64.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 35.40% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13386 3.16071546 66.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 33.80% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13378 3.25054704 65.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 34.60% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13377 3.31381741 20.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Eurasian_Steppe_dup_of_I10949:I10944 + 79.20% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13391 3.31381741 20.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe_dup_of_I10944:I10949 + 79.20% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13391 3.32488366 45.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870 + 54.20% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7224 3.37073180 45.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945 + 54.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870 3.42529481 57.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 42.20% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13391 3.42531651 61.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 39.00% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13379 3.46209088 66.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 34.00% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13385 3.51847015 61.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 38.20% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13390 3.52419275 63.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 36.80% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13381 3.53083930 32.60% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I17432 + 67.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870 3.53289520 54.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 45.80% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13376 3.57121760 64.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870 + 35.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7221 3.57217676 23.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe:I10943 + 76.20% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13380 3.60346117 64.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 35.20% Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13389
Again, the Sicani are quite different from the Greek colonists.
Target: Angela
Distance: 0.3543% / 0.3543440139.2 Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc 27.6 Polizzello_Sicani_Med 21.9 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med 8.0 Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe 3.3 Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc
Around Greeks but slightly more shifted toward Italy, I guess? If you have an average give it to me so I can add it.
It was included in PCAs, so it must be available, so I'll try to find it.
They were not included because they are low coverage samples.
Well, you included all the low coverage Mycenaean samples, so why not the low coverage Minoan samples? From the PCA including both the Mycenaean and Minoan low coverage samples, the Ogititria Minoan samples draw much closer to the Himera samples.
Why should it? XD
I would think that would be obvious. We have Greek colonists in Sicily. It wouldn't be informative to see how they compare to a Greek colonist in the Northern Mediterranean? We're not exactly swimming in Greek samples from the Iron Age and Classical World. Maybe the sample from Attica would be informative too, to see if the Greeks "did" get more "eastern" after the Iron Age and Classical period.
In this PCA I have included all new samples (excluding Caucasian, Eurasian, and Northeast European for better visualization) plus Minoans, Mycenaeans and Empuries.
Without low coverage samples
Greeks in Italy seem to be more "conservative" genetically in comparison with Carthaginians. The bulk of the samples seem to be fully Greek and a proportion seems to be in between Sicanians.
It's clear to see that the colonization was not heavily male-biased. Many or most of the men came with women. The population of the cities grew very large, if most men had not come with women it would not make sense.
Carthaginians in Sardinia seem to be at least 50% native.
It's crazy how Empuries fits right in the middle of the cluster nearly 100% identical with the average. Very good luck that scientists got those 2 samples pretty early.
Some Mycenaeans seem even closer to Aegean Islanders (more Southern) than to Southern Italians but similarly in a "western direction". I think the lack of the samples to show all the genetic variation is inflating the Anatolian admixture by 10% in for example Cretans. Sometimes Cretans come up as more Anatolian than Greek.
Also look from how far some people have come. This could be lesson to not look at solely West Anatolia but beyond that when we discuss eastern shifts occurring in the Iron Age.
Around Greeks but slightly more shifted toward Italy, I guess? If you have an average give it to me so I can add it.
They were not included because they are low coverage samples.
Well, you included other low coverage samples like some of the Mycenaeans, so why not low coverage Minoan samples?
Why should it? XD
We're not exactly swimming in Classical Era Greek samples. We have Greek colonists in Sicily. You don't think it would be informative to see how they compare to a Greek colonist on the coast of Spain, especially since the authors say some of the mercenaries might have come from there?
In this PCA I have included all new samples (excluding Caucasian, Eurasian, and Northeast European for better visualization) plus Minoans, Mycenaeans and Empuries.
It would be helpful to see all the Southern Arc samples, imo.
In a separate post you state that your PCA shows the "mixed" nature of the samples. Am I missing something here? I don't see that at all in the PCA of the samples without the low resolution ones. It shows remarkably Mycenaean like and Empuries like soldiers.
There were no normal resolution samples from Himera residents?
This PCA puts the results in perspective. Also, look at the difference between the Bronze Age and Iron Age Bulgarian. The Iron Age one is, I believe, the E-V13 carrying one, yes?
Well, you included other low coverage samples like some of the Mycenaeans, so why not low coverage Minoan samples?
It would be helpful to see all the Southern Arc samples, imo.
@Salento,
Were the new HO modern samples for Greece and Italy made available too? If so, I think it would be great to have those as well. Sorry to make to be making requests like that, but it would be much appreciated.
VT035 | Italian_Central | Bolsena (VT) / Northern Latium |
PG722 | Italian_Central | Fabriano (AN) / Marche |
PG470 | Italian_Central | Ascoli Piceno (AP) / Marche |
PG739 | Italian_Central | Ca' De Cio (AR) / Southern Tuscany |
PG128 | Italian_Central | Perugia Case Nuove (PG) / Umbria |
PG734 | Italian_Central | Perugia (PG) / Umbria |
PG2012_477 | Italian_Central | Bettolle (SI) / Southern Tuscany |
PG720 | Italian_Central | Ascoli Piceno (AP) / Marche |
PG2012_625 | Italian_Central | Perugia (PG) / Umbria |
PG775 | Italian_Central | Perugia Stazione (PG) / Umbria |
PG2012_642 | Italian_Central | Cupramontana (AN) / Marche |
PG723 | Italian_Central | Perugia Montegrillo (PG) / Umbria |
PG2012_639 | Italian_Central | Arezzo (AR) / Southern Tuscany |
PG2012_242 | Italian_Central | Castiglion Fiorentino (AR) / Southern Tuscany |
PG2012_647 | Italian_Central | Chiusi (SI) / Southern Tuscany |
PG731 | Italian_Central | Montepulciano (SI) / Southern Tuscany |
ALP211 | Italian_North | Modena (MO) / Emilia-Romagna |
ALP156 | Italian_North | Piacenza (PC) / Emilia-Romagna |
ALP202 | Italian_North | Bassano del Grappa (VI) / Veneto |
ALP278 | Italian_North | Borgonovo Val Tidone (PC) / Emilia-Romagna |
ALP134 | Italian_North | Cremona(CR) / Lombardy |
ALP603 | Italian_North | Vernate (MI) / Lombardy |
ALP533 | Italian_North | Torino (TO) / Piedmont |
ALP67 | Italian_North | Borgo Val di Taro (PR) / Emilia-Romagna |
ALP392 | Italian_North | Busseto (PR) / Emilia-Romagna |
ALP68 | Italian_North | Alessandria (AL) / Piedmont |
ALP73 | Italian_North | Cuneo (CN) / Piedmont |
ALP108 | Italian_North | Treviso (TV) / Veneto |
ALP342 | Italian_North | Parma (PR) / Emilia-Romagna |
ALP277 | Italian_North | Domodossola (VB) / Piedmont |
ALP481 | Italian_North | Sappada (BL) / Veneto |
ALP28 | Italian_North | Ferrara (FE) / Emilia-Romagna |
ALP76 | Italian_North | Bergamo (BG) / Lombardy |
Nei27 | Italian_North | Nogarè (TN) / Trentino-Alto Adige |
Nei18 | Italian_North | Taio (TN) / Trentino-Alto Adige |
ALP597 | Italian_South | Cetraro (CS) / Calabria |
ALP129 | Italian_South | Reggio Calabria (RC) / Calabria |
PuG46 | Italian_South | Martano (LE) / Apulia |
PuG12 | Italian_South | Soleto (LE) / Apulia |
PuG20 | Italian_South | Calimera (LE) / Apulia |
PG2012_398 | Italian_South | Lamezia Terme (CZ) / Calabria |
PuG37 | Italian_South | Soleto (LE) / Apulia |
NaN129RT | Italian_South | Portici (NA) / Campania |
PG2012_699 | Italian_South | Mileto (VV) / Calabria |
PuG33 | Italian_South | Sternatia (LE) / Apulia |
PG2012_424 | Italian_South | Amendolara (CS) / Calabria |
PuG74 | Italian_South | Zollino (LE) / Apulia |
ALP374 | Italian_South | Benevento (BN) / Campania |
PuG28 | Italian_South | Martano (LE) / Apulia |
PuG58 | Italian_South | Martano (LE) / Apulia |
PuG17 | Italian_South | Soleto (LE) / Apulia |
PuG66 | Italian_South | Zollino (LE) / Apulia |
AHA15 | Greek | Lefkasio/Ahaia/Greek |
ARG1 | Greek | Argos/Argolida/Greek |
ARK3 | Greek | Perdikoneri/Messenia/Greek |
ARK19 | Greek | Palaiohori/Arkadia/Greek |
CYCL1 | Greek | Koumaros/Cyclades/Greek |
CYCL2 | Greek | Amorgos/Cyclades/Greek |
CYCL3 | Greek | Amorgos/Cyclades/Greek |
CYCL12 | Greek | Tarampados/Cyclades/Greek |
CYCL16 | Greek | Triovasalos/Cyclades/Greek |
CYCL19 | Greek | Milos/Cyclades/Greek |
CYCL22 | Greek | Kea/Cyclades/Greek |
CYCL23 | Greek | Kea/Cyclades/Greek |
DOD1 | Greek | Paradisi/Dodecanese/Greek |
DOD2 | Greek | Lardos/Dodecanese/Greek |
DOD3 | Greek | Laerma/Dodecanese/Greek |
DOD4 | Greek | Archagelos/Dodecanese/Greek |
DOD5 | Greek | Malonas/Dodecanese/Greek |
DOD6 | Greek | Vati/Dodecanese/Greek |
DOD7 | Greek | Rodos/Dodecanese/Greek |
IL4 | Greek | Douneika/Aitolokarnania/Greek |
IL21 | Greek | Skliros/Messenia/Greek |
KOR42 | Greek | Kariotika/Korinthia/Greek |
LAK8 | Greek | Neapoli/Laconia/Greek |
MAK103 | Greek | Hortiatis/Thessaloniki/Greek |
MAK118 | Greek | Epanomi/Thessaloniki/Greek |
MAK127 | Greek | Kassandrino/Halkidiki/Greek |
MAK147 | Greek | Nikisiani/Kavala/Greek |
MAK175 | Greek | Palaiohori/Halkidiki/Greek |
MAK196 | Greek | Parthenonas/Halkidiki/Greek |
MAK249 | Greek | Poroi/Pieria/Greek |
MAK337 | Greek | Doxato/Drama/Greek |
MES19 | Greek | Filiatra/Messenia/Greek |
MES32 | Greek | Kyparissia/Messenia/Greek |
CRE_AN_18 | Cretan | Ano Horio/Lasithi/Greek |
CRE_AV_28 | Cretan | Agios Thomas/Heraklion/Greek |
CRE_IER_20 | Cretan | Christos/Lasithi/Greek |
CRE_KAN_18 | Cretan | Kandanos/Chania/Greek |
CRE_KIS_27 | Cretan | Kalathenes/Chania/Greek |
CRE_MOI_17 | Cretan | Zaros/Heraklion/Greek |
CRE_NE_11 | Cretan | Vrachasi/Lasithi/Greek |
CRE_SIT_4 | Cretan | Papayannades/Lasithi/Greek |
CRE_SIT_8 | Cretan | Ziros/Lasithi/Greek |
CRE_TZ_10 | Cretan | Tzermiado/Lasithi/Greek |
CRE_VIA_25 | Cretan | Vianos/Heraklion/Greek |
those are just the new modern samples, … they also used modern samples from 2019, 2014, 2012, … that we already have.I am surprised that there are no samples from Thrace and pretty much nothing from Epiros and western Macedonia and Ionian Islands.
those are just the new modern samples, … they also used modern samples from 2019, 2014, 2012, … that we already have.
Target: Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13389 Distance: 361.6772% / 3.61677183 | |
---|---|
78.0 | Sardinian |
16.4 | Greek_Icaria |
5.6 | Greek_Pontus |
Distance to: | Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13389 |
---|---|
3.36640758 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I15621 |
4.88876262 | BGR_MalakPreslavets_N:I1295 |
5.18474686 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I14160 |
5.34237775 | BGR_Dzhulyunitsa_N:I17981 |
5.48140493 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7137 |
5.51490707 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I20806 |
6.08691219 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I20810 |
6.13828152 | BGR_MalakPreslavets_N:I2216 |
6.24502202 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL_sister.I7133:I15622 |
6.26147746 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I18116 |
6.33943215 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I15616 |
6.79711704 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I15618 |
7.08920306 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7131 |
7.10983825 | HRV_GornjaVrba_MN:I18827 |
7.35034013 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I15620 |
7.71698128 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7133 |
7.86775063 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7130 |
7.89919616 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7127 |
7.90011392 | ROU_N_outlier1:I7126 |
8.08182529 | SRB_ChLBA:I17914 |
8.10894568 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I18115 |
8.37196512 | SRB_ChLBA:I17915 |
8.58949940 | CYP_PPNB:I4207 |
8.64190951 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_Chl_possible.dup.I18154_1d.rel.I7137:I18117_d |
8.66002309 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I14162 |
Target: Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13389 Distance: 361.6772% / 3.61677183 | |
---|---|
78.0 | Sardinian |
16.4 | Greek_Icaria |
5.6 | Greek_Pontus |
Target: Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13389 Distance: 361.6772% / 3.61677183 | |
---|---|
78.0 | Sardinian |
16.4 | Greek_Icaria |
5.6 | Greek_Pontus |
Sicani sample:
Target: Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13389
Distance: 361.6772% / 3.6167718378.0 Sardinian 16.4 Greek_Icaria 5.6 Greek_Pontus
Distance to: Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13389 3.36640758 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I15621 4.88876262 BGR_MalakPreslavets_N:I1295 5.18474686 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I14160 5.34237775 BGR_Dzhulyunitsa_N:I17981 5.48140493 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7137 5.51490707 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I20806 6.08691219 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I20810 6.13828152 BGR_MalakPreslavets_N:I2216 6.24502202 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL_sister.I7133:I15622 6.26147746 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I18116 6.33943215 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I15616 6.79711704 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I15618 7.08920306 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7131 7.10983825 HRV_GornjaVrba_MN:I18827 7.35034013 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I15620 7.71698128 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7133 7.86775063 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7130 7.89919616 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7127 7.90011392 ROU_N_outlier1:I7126 8.08182529 SRB_ChLBA:I17914 8.10894568 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I18115 8.37196512 SRB_ChLBA:I17915 8.58949940 CYP_PPNB:I4207 8.64190951 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_Chl_possible.dup.I18154_1d.rel.I7137:I18117_d 8.66002309 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I14162
It's looking more likely to me that the Sicani were probably autochthonous, and the ancient writers got it wrong, AGAIN, about the source of the ancient Italian populations.
These people look mainly European farmer like, maybe 75% Anatolian Neolithic, and some WHG, and then maybe some steppe and/or Iran Neo, so definitely Southern European like, but not Mycenaean Greek like or Greek colonist like.
Of course, different tribes in different parts of Sicily and then mainland Italy itself may be different.
We'll have to analyze the samples more carefully once we know we have the official versions.
I
Target: Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13389
Distance: 361.6772% / 3.6167718378.0 Sardinian 16.4 Greek_Icaria 5.6 Greek_Pontus
Distance to: | Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13389 |
---|---|
3.03631355 | Sicily_LBA_Marcita:I10372:Fernandes_2020 |
3.36640758 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I15621 |
4.15817268 | Sicily_LBA_Marcita:I3878:Fernandes_2020 |
4.82849873 | Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II:I11442:Fernandes_2020 |
4.88876262 | BGR_MalakPreslavets_N:I1295 |
5.18474686 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I14160 |
5.32063906 | Sicily_LBA_Marcita:I10373:Fernandes_2020 |
5.34114220 | Sicily_LBA_Marcita:I3876:Fernandes_2020 |
5.34237775 | BGR_Dzhulyunitsa_N:I17981 |
5.40682902 | Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II:I3123:Fernandes_2020 |
5.48140493 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7137 |
5.51490707 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I20806 |
6.08691219 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I20810 |
6.11332970 | Sicily_MN_Stretto_Partanna:I4065:Fernandes_2020 |
6.13828152 | BGR_MalakPreslavets_N:I2216 |
6.24502202 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL_sister.I7133:I15622 |
6.26147746 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I18116 |
6.33943215 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I15616 |
6.79711704 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I15618 |
6.94822279 | Sicily_MBA_Buffa_Cave_II:I4109:Fernandes_2020 |
7.08920306 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7131 |
7.10983825 | HRV_GornjaVrba_MN:I18827 |
7.35034013 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I15620 |
7.41258389 | Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II:I3125:Fernandes_2020 |
7.71698128 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7133 |
7.72373614 | C_Italian_N:R17:Antonio_2019 |
7.86775063 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7130 |
7.89919616 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7127 |
7.90011392 | ROU_N_outlier1:I7126 |
7.94647721 | Sicily_EBA_Contrada_Paolina_Castellucciana:I7807:Fernandes_2020 |
8.08182529 | SRB_ChLBA:I17914 |
8.10894568 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I18115 |
8.32396540 | Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II:I3124:Fernandes_2020 |
8.37196512 | SRB_ChLBA:I17915 |
8.58949940 | CYP_PPNB:I4207 |
8.64190951 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_Chl_possible.dup.I18154_1d.rel.I7137:I18117_d |
8.66002309 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I14162 |
8.89807844 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7135 |
8.91159918 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL_brother.I11906:I7134 |
9.12221464 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I14166 |
9.31020945 | Sicily_EBA_Contrada_Paolina_Castellucciana:I7774_d:Fernandes_2020 |
9.50671342 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I15619 |
9.50742867 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I14165 |
9.56288659 | Sicily_MN_Stretto_Partanna:I4062:Fernandes_2020 |
9.64025933 | BGR_Stambolovo_IA:I15844 |
9.98194871 | C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019 |
10.06071568 | BGR_Dzhulyunitsa_N:I11270 |
10.17709192 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I7136 |
10.17715579 | ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I14159 |
10.18056482 | C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019 |
This is my closest match, a soldier described by the authors as a mixture of central and Balkan ancestry.
Distance to: Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 2.93308711 Italian_Veneto 3.07253967 Italian_Piedmont 3.26599143 Italian_Lombardy 4.01203190 Italian_Liguria 4.52730604 Italian_Emilia 5.03992187 Swiss_Italian 5.26428533 Italian_Friuli_VG 5.57457622 Italian_Trentino 5.90759680 Italian_Tuscany 8.14992025 Italian_Romagna 8.46255871 Italian_Aosta_Valley 9.60735656 French_Corsica 9.83466827 Italian_Umbria 10.21314349 Macedonian_Vardar 10.31406806 Spanish_Baleares 10.58307139 Albanian_Kosovo 10.72228054 Macedonian_South 10.87933362 Macedonian_East 11.30645391 Macedonian_Polog 11.36434336 Italian_Lazio 11.42829821 Portuguese 11.50418463 Italian_Marche 11.63881867 Spanish_Canarias 11.68290632 Greek_Macedonia 11.83536227 Austrian_Tyrol
Closest ancient match for it from Southern Arc samples:
Another mercenary probably from outside Greece or even the Greek world:
Distance to: Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 2.78644935 HRV_BA:I18712 2.98871210 MNE_LBA:I14498 3.23542887 MNE_LBA:I13172 3.42943144 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18088 3.47201671 ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I16253 3.64773903 MNE_LBA:I13775 3.69039293 SRB_BA:I16803 3.77361895 HRV_BA:I5074 4.03637213 MNE_LBA:I13168 4.12242647 MNE_LBA:I13169 4.12408778 SRB_BA:I17913 4.51106418 MKD_Anc:I8112 4.98124482 MKD_Anc:I10384 4.99731928 HRV_Cetina_BA:I19027 5.04593896 HRV_Anc_brother.I18831:I18830 5.07790311 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18745 5.10918780 MNE_LBA_brother.I13169_son.or.brother.I13776:I13777 5.12647052 HRV_BA:I5080 5.17966215 MKD_Anc:I10377 5.31776269 HRV_IA:I5729 5.42506221 SRB_BA:I17912 5.44027573 HRV_Cetina_BA:I18752 5.54583628 MKD_Anc:I10383 5.57596628 MNE_LBA:I13171 5.60107133 MNE_LBA:I14501
Distance to: Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7223 7.64100124 French_Corsica 12.37324937 Italian_Tuscany 12.42813679 Italian_Marche 12.43657509 Italian_Romagna 12.95873836 Italian_Umbria 13.19374094 Italian_Liguria 13.25838225 Italian_Emilia 13.94157452 Italian_Lazio 14.84614765 Italian_Lombardy 15.66525135 Italian_Molise 15.78862249 Italian_Abruzzo 16.13977075 Italian_Campania 16.67125970 Italian_Piedmont 16.85838664 Sardinian 17.26569431 Italian_Sicily 17.39979885 Italian_Veneto 18.01935071 Italian_Basilicata 18.02502427 Albanian 18.39592890 Italian_Calabria 18.47916293 Swiss_Italian 18.50314568 Greek_Athens 18.54495349 Italian_Apulia 18.66551901 Ashkenazi_Jew 18.74542611 Greek_Central 19.42878792 Greek_Thrace
His closest ancient match:Bulgarian Early Bronze. Don't have time to look up their Admixture. Are they the steppe admixed ones?
Distance to: Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7223 4.70157420 BGR_ChL:I2428 4.99663887 BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19456 5.20632308 BGR_Stambolovo_IA:I15844 6.26763113 BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19455 6.92255733 GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13580 6.95267574 BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I19494 7.17226603 BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20183 7.24458418 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I18154 7.29233159 BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20181 7.56946497 GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA_father.or.son.I13518:I13506_d 7.65461952 BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20185 7.67619046 MKD_Anc:I7233 7.91715858 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I18115 8.02812556 BGR_MalakPreslavets_N:I1295 8.05314845 BGR_Dzhulyunitsa_N:I17981 8.12438305 GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13428 8.85305597 MKD_Anc:I10387 8.91196948 MKD_Anc:I10390 9.03008306 BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19451 9.16228138 BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20186 9.24948107 BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19452 9.32417289 BGR_Smyadovo_EBA_contam:I2176 9.48526225 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_Chl_possible.dup.I18154_1d.rel.I7137:I18117_d 9.77989264 MKD_Anc:I10391 9.79789773 GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13579
If he's a local hoplite, some good Mycenaean like matches.
My closest Sicani match, far from Himera, so unlikely to be admixed with Greek colonists:
Distance to: Baucina_MtFalcone_Sicani_Med_lc:I13128 8.87078914 French_Corsica 13.22172833 Italian_Tuscany 13.64501374 Italian_Romagna 13.89294872 Italian_Marche 13.90777121 Italian_Emilia 13.95357302 Italian_Liguria 14.25368373 Italian_Umbria 15.13331094 Italian_Lombardy 15.40216543 Italian_Lazio 16.52666331 Sardinian 17.14383563 Italian_Piedmont 17.28939270 Italian_Molise 17.40661943 Italian_Abruzzo 17.80526888 Italian_Veneto 17.81488703 Italian_Campania 18.64958612 Swiss_Italian 18.97385570 Italian_Sicily 19.04572655 Albanian 19.64594106 Italian_Basilicata 19.78599505 Greek_Athens 20.00009500 Greek_Central 20.05098751 Italian_Apulia 20.17194091 Italian_Calabria 20.21205333 Italian_Trentino 20.30590308 Spanish_Canarias
Closest ancient match:Bulgaria early Bronze. Again, given the modern matches, probably the steppe admixed samples.
Distance to: Baucina_MtFalcone_Sicani_Med_lc:I13128 5.54622394 BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19456 6.33971608 BGR_Stambolovo_IA:I15844 7.34815623 BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19455 7.53493198 BGR_MalakPreslavets_N:I1295 7.61467005 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I18154 7.71061606 BGR_ChL:I2428 7.91028444 GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13580 8.07687440 BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I19494 8.16639455 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_ChL:I18115 8.43653365 BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20181 8.92420305 BGR_Dzhulyunitsa_N:I17981 8.96887953 BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20183 9.23262693 BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20185 9.26365479 MKD_Anc:I7233 9.34211967 MKD_Anc:I10387 9.85924946 GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA_father.or.son.I13518:I13506_d 9.94509930 MKD_Anc:I10390 10.00169986 BGR_Smyadovo_EBA_contam:I2176 10.02298359 BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19451 10.08827537 BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19452 10.31731554 GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13428 10.47995229 ROU_Bodrogkeresztur_Chl_possible.dup.I18154_1d.rel.I7137:I18117_d 10.63376697 BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20186 10.80608162 ROU_N_outlier1:I7126 11.12893077 MKD_Anc:I10391
Himera Civilian Population:
Distance to: Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166 7.00146413 Greek_Izmir 7.53941642 Greek_Foca 8.16654150 Greek_Fournoi 8.36376112 Greek_Icaria 8.52355560 Ashkenazi_Jew 8.68658161 Moldovan_Jewish 8.76209450 Greek_Crete 9.00281067 Greek_Athens 9.62135645 Italian_Apulia 9.82482061 Greek_Lemnos 10.11706973 Italian_Molise 10.17894887 Greek_Central 10.23899409 Italian_Campania 10.38479658 Italian_Calabria 10.73117887 Greek_Kos 11.00641631 Italian_Sicily 11.28183939 Greek_Rhodes 11.28560145 Italian_Abruzzo 11.44035402 Greek_Peloponnese 11.69727319 Italian_Basilicata 12.68192809 Italian_Jew 12.96513401 Albanian 13.13688319 Greek_Thessaloniki 13.89746020 Sephardic_Jew 13.95732782 Greek_Thrace
The above sample compared to ancient samples from the Southern Arc:
Distance to: Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166 6.52941039 TUR_Marmara_Balıkesir_Byz:I14831 7.76007088 GRC_Palace_of_Nestor_EIA:I19368 8.39931545 TUR_Marmara_Balıkesir_Byz:I14820 8.50581566 TUR_Marmara_İznik_Y.kapı_Byz:I14840 8.57726646 TUR_BlackSea_Samsun_Anc_A:I5249 8.79564097 TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Stratonikeia_Byz:I20187 9.27222196 BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I19490 9.64222485 BGR_Anc:I19500 9.64535121 MKD_Anc_outlier2:I10167 9.71665580 TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Stratonikeia_Byz:I20147 9.75084099 TUR_Marmara_Balıkesir_PostMdv:I14823 10.20658611 ALB_PostMdv:I14686 10.60652629 TUR_Marmara_Balıkesir_Byz:I14832 10.75888935 HRV_Trogir_Byz:I15462 10.88683609 GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13577 11.48303531 GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA:I13517_d 11.58518019 HRV_Cetina_BA_1d.rel.I19027.possible.1d.rel.I19020:I19022 11.81717394 MKD_Anc:I10389 11.84901262 TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Samantaş_Byz:I20265 11.92806774 ALB_Mdv:I14622 11.94731351 GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA:I19366 11.99140943 BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I19495 12.01849824 TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Samantaş_Byz:I20266 12.27979234 TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Samantaş_Byz_brother.I20265:I20264 12.33088805 TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Samantaş_Byz:I20259
So, even the inhabitants of the Greek colony who might have been admixed with the very different Sicani seem quite close to an EIA Greek in the Palace of Nestor.
I'm always slightly amazed how such an old calculator can come so close to modern qpAdm and Admixture analyses of ancient samples.
Both of those Balkan/Central-European are E-V13, which is interesting and might hint they came from similar region. What is your guess?
I reviewed the Y Haplogroup of the duplicate bams, it matches I10944 Himera 480-BC-Battle Eurasian-Steppe, … disregard / delete I10949, as of now.… I10944 and I10949 bams are duplicates, they’ve been the same for a month, … see the size of the bams below:
This thread has been viewed 49213 times.