Did you know that Kurds(Kurdish PeoPle) are Europeans?

[sparkey]

sparkey. Just want to clarify one thing. That last one is not actually Chiaroni et al., but rather a questionable study out of Iran, on Iranian minority religious groups. Please see Dienekes' post on this paper, for more information: "Y Chromosome variation in Iranian religious groups."

Sorry, I misread the thread. They cite the bogus study that "The Genetic Atlas" made up? That's a scholarly blunder, at least.

R-L23 (20%-30%)

Wow, what are the levels of R1b L23-?

PS - So, you are married to a part Chaldean? Neat!

Yep! I talk a little more about her background here.

 

[barbarian]

my grandfathers father was kurdish, however, i dont feel like kurdish. on the other hand, i can understand kurds struggle for having their own country. i hope 1 day there will be peace in that part of the country.

But, i dont understand this map. here is the result of latest election in turkey, and the dark blue areas show that in only 2 cities the kurdish national party have the majority.

and in some cities which are supposed to be kurdish in this graph have very interesting election results. for example, in sewas (sivas):
kurdish national party: 0; turkish national party: 10 (majority is AKP-liberal(?) muslim party- with %63,3)
meres (marash):
kurdish national party: 0,5; turkish national party: 13 (majority is AKP with %69,6)

anyway, this map is funny.

 

[how yes no 3]

yes, I did feel it all along that Kurds are Europeans in origin

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26076-sea-peoples&p=395850&viewfull=1#post395850

 

[Alan]

We anatolians dont lİke mongols and kurds. İ am anatolİan mİtannİ descend İ wİsh everyone return theİr homeland anatolİa for anatolİans

good for you.

This is the traditional definition of Anatolia.



Now please get your people and troops out of Kurdistan and be a happy Anatolian


@barbarian these election results you show are fake and you know that. Very bold to come here show a fake map and to lie. We are not on Youtube. There you can spread your crap but not here.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...2002_Turkish_general_election_english.svg.png
http://www.electoralgeography.com/new/en/wp-content/gallery/turkey2011/2011-turkey-legislative.png

Elections aren't and indication for anyways. Not every person is a ultra national Kurd that he votes for a Kurdish party just for nothing. People want food too and people and provinces which voted for Kurdish party are generally left out and poor dirt because of obvious reasons.

 

[Alan]

The land is Artuqid land and ottoman not your we brought you from İran you nothing have to mesopotamia and anatolia well most syrians are descend of anatolians. Anatolias build these cities Only hakkari is belong to kurds. Hakkari maybe Şırnak too belong Kurds they are native to these city
:grin: i wish these Tatars and nogai go out our land too i dont like them they made turanist propaganda

your sentence doesn't make sense. "Artuqids" were a dynasty and came to this place of the world around 1100 AD. According to your failed fascist logic this land is Roman since they had a ruled this land for centuries. You say you are not from Central Asia but than claim a land based on a Turkmen (Central Asian) dynasty. Do you have some sort of mental issues (or is it just your fascist mentality which tempts you to be like this, I assume you also believe Sumerians were Proto-Turks and anyone of this world is descend of Proto-Turks just like Atatürk teached you guys didn't he?) And why should this land be Artuqid to begin with? Just because of a Turkmen dynasty. According to your logic this land is ultimately Iranic anyways.

680 BCE where was your "Artuqids" during that time?


Parthian Dynasty.


Mitanni


Ayyubid Dynasty


Now please leave Kurdistan and go to wherever you came from, be it Turkmenistan, the Altai mountains or Anatolia. According to your own logic you are not even Anatolian to begin with (Anatolia is a Greek word) nor are you Mesopotamian or Transcaucasian. Claiming a dynasty with a heavy Indo-Iranian Elite, like the Mitanni does show me what a trol l face you are.

 

[hgfds]

Carlos Flores, Nicole Maca-Meyer, Jose M. Larruga, Vicente M. Cabrera, Naif Karadsheh, and Ana M. Gonzalez. "Isolates in a corridor of migrations: a high-resolution analysis of Y-chromosome variation in Jordan." Journal of Human Genetics 50 (2005): pages 435-441. This study is mainly about the people of Jordan, but also compares them to other populations in the region. It includes a sample of 251 Kurds from Anatolia (modern Turkey), and these Kurds' Y-DNA (paternal DNA) haplogroup distributions were as follows:


J2-M172 = 19.9%
F*-M89 = 14.3%
R1a1-M17 = 12.4%
R1-M173 = 11.2%
J1-M267 = 11.2%
P-M45 = 10%
T-M70 = 4.8%
E1b1b1a-M78 = 4%
E1b1b1c-M123 = 4%
G-M201 = 2%




In this study, Nebel et al. found the following Y-DNA (paternal DNA) haplogroup frequencies among Kurds from Iraqi Kurdistan:
J2 = 28.4%
R1b = 16.8%
I = 16.8%
R1a = 11.6%
J1 = 11.6%
E1b1b = 7.4%
G = 4.2%
T = 3.2%




Their sample of 114 Kurds from Turkey (Zaza and Kurmanji Kurds) had the following Y-DNA (paternal DNA) haplogroup frequencies, among others:
F = 10.5%
P1 = 6.1%
P* = 5.3%
Ömer Gokcumen, et al. "Biological Ancestries, Kinship Connections, and Projected Identities in Four Central Anatolian Settlements: Insights from Culturally Contextualized Genetic Anthropology." American Anthropologist 113:1 (2011): pages 116-131. Y-DNA was tested from Kurds from a Kurdish village called "Dogukoy" in the central Anatolian region they called "Yuksekyer" (the real village and region names were obfuscated). 5 of those sampled belonged to haplogroup E1b, 1 to I2a2a-M223, 1 to I2a2b-L38, 1 to J1, 20 to J2 (representing 64.5% of all samples), 1 to R1a, and 2 to R1b-M343.



​

See, you guys (westerners) don't understand.
The modern Kurdish issue is political first and foremost, pumped by propaganda, not more not less, thus it has no long term future. They are Not much different than neighbors; not racially, not culturally, and not even that much ethnically. On what basis that obsession and emphasis on Kurdish identity and independence? even if it was practical.


The reason that there is a big issue such as the Kurdish issue is very simple and not complicated at all. The Kurds, unfortunately for them, for some historical reason happened to have an extreme nationalist elite that is obsessed with racial purity and identity, just like any racially fanatic group. Thats it!, that the whole explanation for the "Kurdish issue". Nothing more to it. Sure one can throw some junk from history, culture, genes, ethnicity; bend it and milk it to find a deeper meaning for this obsession about the Kurdish "Identity"




To give you an example from your own culture so you can relate and understand, take this scenario. You know the racist maniac movement called Afrocentrism that exist it the USA right? You know nation of Islam? that group that believes in methodological stories such as that African americans descend from a lost African tribe named Shabaz that originated in Africa 66 trillion years ago, Ancient Egyptians are predominately black, Athena is black, Shakespeare is black, and etc


They even protested against a museum for showing King tut as white because they think ancient Egypt is sub-saharan.


(Couldn't put the link for the video)


Now this is only a small segment of African American community, but imagine that somehow this movement became wide spread among most AA (African American) and became the norm among them, its very conceivable for this scenario to happen. Now people outside the USA who are not familiar with this movement, its roots and ideology and only listen to their side of the so called "issue" would think that most of what they say is true. AA must be the most oppressed group on earth!! Damn this whole movement is really IN FACT about them being so oppressed, and Its roots is in fact old in history and all about their stolen and manipulated heritage and identity; Its not a movement that is driven by an extreme ideology that is based on appealing to primitive emotions and propaganda and somehow found its way to AA community, no not at all, its all real! Thats what an outsider would think


Now imagine these group of people (Afrocentrism) who are the majority of AA demand a separate country somewhere in the U.S.A.it all adds up right? after all they are that oppressed and distinct. Of course thats bullshit and not true, yes AA have been oppressed in the future and still are to some extent no one denies that, and yes their history and heritage have been manipulated but not to the extent that Afrocentrists make it look like. Of course most people can recognize that now because Afrocentrists are only a small minority among the AA community, but just use your imagination a little bit and try to imagine what will happen if Afrocentrism became the norm among most AA. It will become a 100 times easier for outsiders to be fooled by Afrocentrists because after all they represent most AA right? they all cannot be liars. But its not about lying, thats just the nature of victim mentality when it spreads among a group of people, it just makes them delusional. Notice that I am not denying any injustice that Kurds went through, but just like the Afrocentrists example all I'm saying is that its a 100 exaggerated it.


So bottom line is that the Kurdish extreme elite created: A fake identity using propaganda (History, culture, race...etc) that justifies the supposed deep distinction between them and other people in the region (which explains why is the OP trying do prove they are European, that and inferiority complex) + victim mentality + Western Oligarchy's interests in deviding the region especially Turkey = the Kurdish "issue"




I know that most westerners will not believe this and will only listen to the Kurdish side of the story because its so supported by western Oligarchy (media, academics, politics..etc) But hey at least take this information as an explanation of what most people in the region think about this issue.

 

[LeBrok]

Carlos Flores, Nicole Maca-Meyer, Jose M. Larruga, Vicente M. Cabrera, Naif Karadsheh, and Ana M. Gonzalez. "Isolates in a corridor of migrations: a high-resolution analysis of Y-chromosome variation in Jordan." Journal of Human Genetics 50 (2005): pages 435-441. This study is mainly about the people of Jordan, but also compares them to other populations in the region. It includes a sample of 251 Kurds from Anatolia (modern Turkey), and these Kurds' Y-DNA (paternal DNA) haplogroup distributions were as follows:


J2-M172 = 19.9%
F*-M89 = 14.3%
R1a1-M17 = 12.4%
R1-M173 = 11.2%
J1-M267 = 11.2%
P-M45 = 10%
T-M70 = 4.8%
E1b1b1a-M78 = 4%
E1b1b1c-M123 = 4%
G-M201 = 2%




In this study, Nebel et al. found the following Y-DNA (paternal DNA) haplogroup frequencies among Kurds from Iraqi Kurdistan:
J2 = 28.4%
R1b = 16.8%
I = 16.8%
R1a = 11.6%
J1 = 11.6%
E1b1b = 7.4%
G = 4.2%
T = 3.2%




Their sample of 114 Kurds from Turkey (Zaza and Kurmanji Kurds) had the following Y-DNA (paternal DNA) haplogroup frequencies, among others:
F = 10.5%
P1 = 6.1%
P* = 5.3%
Ömer Gokcumen, et al. "Biological Ancestries, Kinship Connections, and Projected Identities in Four Central Anatolian Settlements: Insights from Culturally Contextualized Genetic Anthropology." American Anthropologist 113:1 (2011): pages 116-131. Y-DNA was tested from Kurds from a Kurdish village called "Dogukoy" in the central Anatolian region they called "Yuksekyer" (the real village and region names were obfuscated). 5 of those sampled belonged to haplogroup E1b, 1 to I2a2a-M223, 1 to I2a2b-L38, 1 to J1, 20 to J2 (representing 64.5% of all samples), 1 to R1a, and 2 to R1b-M343.



​

See, you guys (westerners) don't understand.
The modern Kurdish issue is political first and foremost, pumped by propaganda, not more not less, thus it has no long term future. They are Not much different than neighbors; not racially, not culturally, and not even that much ethnically. On what basis that obsession and emphasis on Kurdish identity and independence? even if it was practical.


The reason that there is a big issue such as the Kurdish issue is very simple and not complicated at all. The Kurds, unfortunately for them, for some historical reason happened to have an extreme nationalist elite that is obsessed with racial purity and identity, just like any racially fanatic group. Thats it!, that the whole explanation for the "Kurdish issue". Nothing more to it. Sure one can throw some junk from history, culture, genes, ethnicity; bend it and milk it to find a deeper meaning for this obsession about the Kurdish "Identity"




To give you an example from your own culture so you can relate and understand, take this scenario. You know the racist maniac movement called Afrocentrism that exist it the USA right? You know nation of Islam? that group that believes in methodological stories such as that African americans descend from a lost African tribe named Shabaz that originated in Africa 66 trillion years ago, Ancient Egyptians are predominately black, Athena is black, Shakespeare is black, and etc


They even protested against a museum for showing King tut as white because they think ancient Egypt is sub-saharan.


(Couldn't put the link for the video)


Now this is only a small segment of African American community, but imagine that somehow this movement became wide spread among most AA (African American) and became the norm among them, its very conceivable for this scenario to happen. Now people outside the USA who are not familiar with this movement, its roots and ideology and only listen to their side of the so called "issue" would think that most of what they say is true. AA must be the most oppressed group on earth!! Damn this whole movement is really IN FACT about them being so oppressed, and Its roots is in fact old in history and all about their stolen and manipulated heritage and identity; Its not a movement that is driven by an extreme ideology that is based on appealing to primitive emotions and propaganda and somehow found its way to AA community, no not at all, its all real! Thats what an outsider would think


Now imagine these group of people (Afrocentrism) who are the majority of AA demand a separate country somewhere in the U.S.A.it all adds up right? after all they are that oppressed and distinct. Of course thats bullshit and not true, yes AA have been oppressed in the future and still are to some extent no one denies that, and yes their history and heritage have been manipulated but not to the extent that Afrocentrists make it look like. Of course most people can recognize that now because Afrocentrists are only a small minority among the AA community, but just use your imagination a little bit and try to imagine what will happen if Afrocentrism became the norm among most AA. It will become a 100 times easier for outsiders to be fooled by Afrocentrists because after all they represent most AA right? they all cannot be liars. But its not about lying, thats just the nature of victim mentality when it spreads among a group of people, it just makes them delusional. Notice that I am not denying any injustice that Kurds went through, but just like the Afrocentrists example all I'm saying is that its a 100 exaggerated it.


So bottom line is that the Kurdish extreme elite created: A fake identity using propaganda (History, culture, race...etc) that justifies the supposed deep distinction between them and other people in the region (which explains why is the OP trying do prove they are European, that and inferiority complex) + victim mentality + Western Oligarchy's interests in deviding the region especially Turkey = the Kurdish "issue"




I know that most westerners will not believe this and will only listen to the Kurdish side of the story because its so supported by western Oligarchy (media, academics, politics..etc) But hey at least take this information as an explanation of what most people in the region think about this issue.

By understanding of Western free and democratic world, any ethnic group should have a right to separate into own independent country, by means of referendum. It doesn't matter that you think they are not different enough, it matters that they feel different enough. It is their choice to have, not yours.
It seems that you hate Kurds a lot. Are you Turk?
And watch out. Degrading any ethnicity or nationality on Eupedia is forbidden.

 

[Goga]

Dutch and German are not different from each other, or Germans and Danes are not that different from each other or Czechian and Slovakian populations are not that different or that Croatians are similar to Serbs, still all those ethnic groups have their own country.

Or do only nations of Europe have a right to have their own country, while Kurds, Kurdish unique culture and Kuridsh language should be exterminated, right?


Kurds and Turks are 2 different things. We have got different languages, different cultures (Kurds Iranic, while Turks mixed between Turanic/Anatolian), different roots and different future.


There are much more differences between Turks and Kurds than between Duch and let say Spanish people.


Kurds are native to their homeland, while Turks are from the Altai. Kurds have more right to have their own state than Turks in Anatolia, becasue Kurds are native while Turks are immigrants from the Altai.


Kurds will have their own state to protect themlseves from new masacres and genocides. If Kurds will not have their own state, enemies of Kurds come at night and try to kill Kurdish children and women again and again.


Kurdistan belongs to Kurdistan and Kurdish natural recourses belong to Kurdish race, because Kurds are native to their own homeland.


There are 1000 more reasons why Kurds will get their own homeland back. And nobody will ever stop it. Definitely not Turks. Turks and Arabs are to WEAK to stop independent Great Kurdistan, from Amed to Kermanshah.


This is my first and last reply to you. I don't have time to play games with you..

 

[Goga]

It seems that you hate Kurds a lot. Are you Turk?

Don't think he is a Turk. He can be everyone. He/she just 'using' Turk for his/her own rant It seems that he is showing his anger toward the whole race of 50 million people, while he is maybe angry at some individuals who can be of Kuridsh origin. But when it comes out that he hates the whole distinctive race of 50 million people, then it is not anger or hatred but simply racism.

If some Kurdish individuals didn't do anything to him/her, then his/her hatred and racism can be explained by his/her jealousy of Kurdish race / history...

 

[hgfds]

By understanding of Western free and democratic world, any ethnic group should have a right to separate into own independent country, by means of referendum. It doesn't matter that you think they are not different enough, it matters that they feel different enough. It is their choice to have, not yours.
It seems that you hate Kurds a lot. Are you Turk?
And watch out. Degrading any ethnicity or nationality on Eupedia is forbidden.

I didn't talk about whether they have the right to have an independent nation or not, I'm clarifying to the western reader what kind of motives motivates their cause and the tools they use, because I think it is difficult for an outsider to come to that conclusion by him/her self due to massive propaganda campaign from the west to support their "cause" (Media, Academics, Political..etc)

Do they have the right to their own nation? thats another question which I will leave to the next comment.

And obviously I didn't degrade any ethnicity

He/she just 'using' Turk for his/her own rant

I didn't use anything and didn't claim any nation.
And I'm sorry if I offended you, I'm talking about some of the elites not the people.
And I don't hate Kurds as you think.

 

[hgfds]

Do Kurds have the right to an independent nation?
Idealistic values sound attractive when your a strong and stable first world nation and its not happening on your land. Take the last elections in the U.S for example, when Trump won people started riots in the streets, some writers speculated a "military coup", others demanded the electoral collage to not vote for him..etc. Imagine it was something more serious?


I'm not writing this in hope to convince anybody, because I know that what the media did in years cannot be erased in one comment
I'm just trying to present to you the other side of the story, and believe me this is what 85%-90% of people in the region think

People here think that the western oligarchy support the Kurds as part of a broader plan to further divide our countries. The Kurdish extremist political elites ally with our enemies such as Israel and western oligarchy against us, we WILL NOT accept that. Even if we hypothetically agree to divide our nations, we don't want them to create a new enemy state on our borders! Imagine Scotland gains independence and allies with the Soviet Union against Britain. And to make this example more realistic imagine that Britain and Europe are 3rd world countries + the Soviets are trying divide all of Europe (Thus more vulnerable) under absurd claims and ideologies. I'm sure in this case you will forget about the right of self-determination and other idealistic values.
Adding to that the grossly exaggerated land that they claim, just look at their maps.


All of these are practical obstacles that makes most people in the region stand agents Kurdish independence even if their cause was hypothetically just, which is not the case.
We in this region who are suffering from western oligarchy aggression and conspires cannot afford to give every village an independent nation.
We need to establish logical criteria for determining the right of a group to claim an independent nation, otherwise the west will tear our counter apart
Religion, values, culture, history..etc. These factors need to be drastically different to justify getting an independent nation, like N Sudan and S Sudan. Not merely an absurd and extreme ideology that stands on no logical ground. Kurds and Turks are very similar racially, and almost identical in all other factors except language, even same social structure (habits, ideologies, values, morals...etc) If we give independence to any group based only on ideological indoctrination that is based mostly mythological and historical delusions then that opens the door for any group to make up anything and demand indepenace, and believe me there are a lot of other groups waiting!


Don't use your current position as strong and stable first world countries for comparison, try to put all other factors in the consideration.

 

[Goga]

Do Kurds have the right to an independent nation?

Yes, you know why? Because Turks have already many states in Central Asia: Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan. Is it not ENOUGH???

Arabs have more than 20 states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_world


It is not up to Turks to decide whether Kurds should have their own state. It is what Kurds WANT. And Kurds WILL build their own state(s), 1 Great Kurdistan or maybe 2 or 3 smaller Kurdish states.


No matter what Kurds are defeating and will defeat Turks big time. Kurds will sent Turks back to Cnetral Asia.


And no, Kurds and Turks ae not racially similar. Kurds are pure people belong the Aryan/Iranian race, while Turks are a mixture of everything and everybody. I mean, I am an Ezdi Kurd and I'm racially basically similar to the ancient Medes who lived 2500 years ago. Can Turks say the same?

PKK is in our DNA and our soul. Is PKK also in the DNA of the Turks. I don't think so. Kurdish race is Aryan/PKK!

Kurds and TUrks belong to defferent racial gorups, 2 different linguistic groups, 2 different religions (Islam vs. Yezidism/Zoroastrianism), 2 different cultres (Aryan culture vs. Turanic culture)

My people don't want to b in 1 country with Turks. Turks are Muslim. My people are Yezidi. I mean, I have dozens of nephews and nieces. I have 5 uncles and 5 aunts. My uncles and aunts have their own children and grandchildren. My parents have also many uncles and aunts. All of them have also children and grandchildren. I don't even know how big my family is. All I know, that ALL my relatives don't like Turks, never liked the Turks and never want to be near the Turks.

ALL of my relatives are 100% hardcore PKK. PKK is in our DNA. TO defeat the PKK, you need to defeat 50 million racial Kurds.


There will be Kurdistan, I'm sure about it 10000%. Turks played stupid games and they lost. They wanted a revival of the Ottoman Empire (LMAO, how delusion of grandeur cab you be, it is really mental), now they will have NOTHING at all. Erdogan teared Turkey apart. Nobody wants to help the Turks against the Kurds.

Turks, Turkey = ISIS, Daesh. Daesh is going down big time. Turkey is going down together with Daesh.

It is very simple, those who support the Kruds will win this war , those who help Turkey will going down together with Turkey. Kurds are the winners this time. It is our time and our era. Kurds are awaken. USA, Russia etc. are not going to hep Turkey. USA know that if they help Turkey, USA will lose influence of the whole Middle East. USA is supporting the strongest actor.
Russia is also can't really help Turkey and Turkey can't help Russia. Russia knows that if Russia will chose the side of Turkey, Russia will lose big time.

It is how it is. Realpolitik. And NOBODY can do anything about it. You can't change the course of history. And history is on the Kurdish side. It is how our ARYAN God wants it to be.

Kurds will get what belongs to the Kurds. Kurds don't want more, they want only what belongs to themselves and their ancestors and their children.


Kurds will build a beautiful country for themselves. We will show the whole world what does it mean to be a real Aryan nation.


PKK = 50 million Kurdish people. Power to the people!

 

[LeBrok]

Do Kurds have the right to an independent nation?
Idealistic values sound attractive when your a strong and stable first world nation and its not happening on your land.

European principles of freedoms and independence was forged in centuries of national and ethnic conflicts and wars. Europe today is a small continent but with 50 nations. If anyone, Europe understands importance of freedom and independence for any peoples. You are not in position to teach us, but to learn from us.

I'm not writing this in hope to convince anybody, because I know that what the media did in years cannot be erased in one comment
I'm just trying to present to you the other side of the story, and believe me this is what 85%-90% of people in the region think

Now, this is Turkish propaganda. Such strong unity of thoughts doesn't exist. Especially in ethnically mixed country like Turkey, Syria or Iraq.

People here think that the western oligarchy support the Kurds as part of a broader plan to further divide our countries. The Kurdish extremist political elites ally with our enemies such as Israel and western oligarchy against us, we WILL NOT accept that. Even if we hypothetically agree to divide our nations, we don't want them to create a new enemy state on our borders!

You think European people are not intelligent enough to have their own independent thought and need oligarchy to decide for them?!!! Did you miss the fact that Europe is a conglomerate of 50 democratic states where people dictated political direction of every country? These people through their elected representatives dictate direction of EU.
But of course you are smart enough to know that Europeans are run by "conspiring oligarchy". Where did you learn how Europe works, in Russia? You sound like someone from Putin's fake news department of cyber warfare.

Imagine Scotland gains independence and allies with the Soviet Union against Britain.

Imagine Scotland have referendum about its independance. Oh, wait, you don't need to, they actually did have it in real life. People decided about their future! Imagine that! If Britten allow it for Scots, why Turkey can't allow it for Kurds? Again, please learn how it is done in free western world.

All of these are practical obstacles that makes most people in the region stand agents Kurdish independence even if their cause was hypothetically just, which is not the case.
We in this region who are suffering from western oligarchy aggression and conspires cannot afford to give every village an independent nation.
We need to establish logical criteria for determining the right of a group to claim an independent nation, otherwise the west will tear our counter apart

This is where you lost all the credibility.

Religion, values, culture, history..etc. These factors need to be drastically different to justify getting an independent nation, like N Sudan and S Sudan. Not merely an absurd and extreme ideology that stands on no logical ground.

Oh, your "smarts" are coming out more and more.

Kurds and Turks are very similar racially, and

almost identical in all other factors except language, even same social structure (habits, ideologies, values, morals...etc)

They are actually quite genetically distinct, especially from West Turks who are genetically more like Greeks. There are also some enclaves in Turkey where people have strong genetic similarities with central Asian Turkic populations. Remember, you are posting on Genetic Anthropology forums. Regardless, genetic differences or similarities are not a prerequisite for independence or against it, for any population. It is time you should learn this.

and believe me there are a lot of other groups waiting!

Good, they should get their independence too. Why the heck it scares you so much?! Let people decide what they want to do with their land, country, language, politics. Europe understood it, all who wanted got their country. All the wars stopped. We have unprecedented peace, tolerance and prosperity. Can't you see that it is a good thing?
Once again, you should learn from Europeans, and stop teaching us.

 

[MOESAN]

I think Kurds deserve to have their proper state(s) if it's really democratic, for today political and ethnic reasons. I'm sincere and I'm upset when I saw the big states helping them here and leave their brethren die there, for real politic.
Do'nt take real politic as a model: it's shit. But I don't care too much about your far past full of honors and purity and what i know. As other people on the earth, your ancestors had blood on their hands (as my own helas). Let's take of past the better, let's defend our rights to independant cultures, but let's leave all these ancient "glory" in the rubbish pots of History;
NO offense Goga. I would be glad if Kurds had their state, even more if they try to push their society towards the kind of evolution I suppose I'm seeing in some parts of Kurdistan (better place to women than in Arabic lands?).

 

[DuPidh]

Kurds European? OH Please! Never been, never will

 

[Boreas]

It is GOGA time

Yes, you know why? Because Turks have already many states in Central Asia: Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan. Is it not ENOUGH???

Arabs have more than 20 states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_world

Cheer up buddy, here is the map of speaker of Iranian languages. I can't decide about Pakistan but look at Iran, Afghanistan and Tajikestan :grin:

How much difference are Kurdish languages from each other and also Persian? Can you compare it with Turkic languages?

This is example to give how difference Turkic languages.

I have found this language tree but there is no time.

It is not up to Turks to decide whether Kurds should have their own state. It is what Kurds WANT. And Kurds WILL build their own state(s), 1 Great Kurdistan or maybe 2 or 3 smaller Kurdish states.

2-3 State scenario is more realistic. But I suppose that after that scenario definatly at least some of these states will unite.

No matter what Kurds are defeating and will defeat Turks big time. Kurds will sent Turks back to Cnetral Asia.

This is the section where you bark. First of all, I was getting angry, but now I am enjoying to see how puyt yourself this kind of position:grin:

As you said "Turks are a mixture of everything and everybody. " why you are sending Turks to there. There are also not belong there.

Kurds are pure people belong the Aryan/Iranian race, while Turks are a mixture of everything and everybody.

if there is something I know about genetic, it is that Kurds are not pure as Iranian and Turks.

Kurds and TUrks belong to defferent racial gorups, 2 different linguistic groups, 2 different religions (Islam vs. Yezidism/Zoroastrianism), 2 different cultres (Aryan culture vs. Turanic culture)

The only think you can say lingustic but before the Ataturk it was also pretty same with Aryan languages. Even still many basic Turkish words come from Persian.

Turanic ??? Even Seljuk Empire was culturally Aryan

Your people are Yezidi, but Majority of Kurd not.

Personel Question:
Do you want to live as a member of Yezidi minority in Kurdistan or prefer to live in a smaller country with Persian Zoroastrian as majority.

It is how our ARYAN God wants it to be.

Aryan God ??? Wasn't your god create all humankind.

 

[Goga]

Cheer up buddy, here is the map of speaker of Iranian languages. I can't decide about Pakistan but look at Iran, Afghanistan and Tajikestan :grin:

How much difference are Kurdish languages from each other and also Persian? Can you compare it with Turkic languages?

Good point! Iran is Western Iranian, while Afghanistan is Eastern Iranian. Tajikistan is semi Iranian since in Tajikistan live many Uzbek folks. Pakistan is actually mostly part of the Indian world. The only difference is that Pakistan is Islamic, while India is Hindu.

So, there is only 1 West Iranian independent state. And even that state is multi cultural. Kurdish is a language on it own. It has its own 'group'. All Kurdish dialect/languages are part of the separate Kurdish group. I don't understand Farsi at all, although many words are similar to Kurdish so I do understand only words..

Turanic ??? Even Seljuk Empire was culturally Aryan

Don't know much about Seljuks, but their roots and language were Turanic, rooted in Central Asia.

Your people are Yezidi, but Majority of Kurd not.

All Kurmanji Kurds are Ezdi Kurds. Islam was imposed on them, they are not real Muslims. Islam is only a name. 1 day you are a Muslim, second day you can be soemthing else. Everybody can be Muslim, from Africa to China. But the Yezidism is an ethnoreligion. Yezidism is part of our Kurdish ethnicity, our Kurdishness. Go to Rojava and ask people who they are. Leaders and most Kurds of Rojava are saying that they are Ezdi, period. Majority of Kurds are Kurmanji Kurds. Kurmanji Kurds = Ezdi Kurds (have Ezdi roots). They come back to their original native origin

2-3 State scenario is more realistic. But I suppose that after that scenario definatly at least some of these states will unite.

I think at the end there will be 1 united Kurdish state called Great Kurdistan. But Great Kurdistan will be a federation of 3 or 4 different states. Kurmanji/Ezdi Kurds, Zaza/Gorani Kurds, Feyli Kurds, Sorani Kurds, Luri Kurds will all have their own region, think of Germany or Switzerland. Every Kurdish culture and dialect must be respected & cherished. Pluralism of cultural variations has always been wealth/richness to the Aryan people. All those regions will be united under 1 Great Kurdistan.

Personel Question:
Do you want to live as a member of Yezidi minority in Kurdistan or prefer to live in a smaller country with Persian Zoroastrian as majority.

I do prefer a federal Ezdi state within Great Kurdistan. A federal Ezdi State within Great Kurdistan should have its own religious holidays and its own rules in accordance to the Ezdi religion. Also, I do believe in an 'Aryan Union' with the Persians.

I hope that in the far future, after Persians become normal, Kurdistan and Persia will unite and form a some kind of confederation, like the EU, but only between Iranian people. I'm actually interested in the 'Iranian' world and not in the 'Western' world.

Aryan God ??? Wasn't your god create all humankind.

According to my people there is only 1 GOD, but GOD created Kurds separatly from the rest of the mankind. God also created 7 angels. 1 of those angels is Melek Taus. He is a chief (boss) of those other 6 angels. Kurds (Ezdi) are people of the Melek Taus (chief of 7 angels). But by Aryan God I meant 'Melek Taus'. According to our mythology Melek Taus is the ruler of our world, our 'reality'. There are 7 dimensions or 7 'realities' and Melek Taus is the ruler of our 'dimension'/reality/world.

I know religion can be very confusing, but I want and choose to believe in it.

 

[Goga]

I think Kurds deserve to have their proper state(s) if it's really democratic, for today political and ethnic reasons. I'm sincere and I'm upset when I saw the big states helping them here and leave their brethren die there, for real politic.
Do'nt take real politic as a model: it's shit. But I don't care too much about your far past full of honors and purity and what i know. As other people on the earth, your ancestors had blood on their hands (as my own helas). Let's take of past the better, let's defend our rights to independant cultures, but let's leave all these ancient "glory" in the rubbish pots of History;
NO offense Goga. I would be glad if Kurds had their state, even more if they try to push their society towards the kind of evolution I suppose I'm seeing in some parts of Kurdistan (better place to women than in Arabic lands?).

I know what you mean. But his ridiculous ideas deserve ridiculous answers.

I mean we have a scientific evidence that Kurds are antive to Kurdistan and can be linked to the ancient people like the Medes who lived in Kurdistan. I mean, nowadays Kurds are very similar to the Copper-Iron Age Iranians. Iron Age started in Kurdistan maybe 1300 BC. The Medes are from the same Iron Age. At the end of the 2nd millennium BC the Median tribes came into existence in Kurdistan (Western parts of the Iranian Plateau). And I'm similar to those folks. How is it even possible after more than 3000 years I'm practically the same as those Iron Age Medes. I LOVE science, because of science I can trace my roots back all the way back to the Medes era.


Thanks to LeBrok, HarappaWorld:

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 725"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Admixture:[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Goga[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Iranian
Iron Age[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Iranian
Chalcolithic[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Caucasian[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]40,84[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]47.6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]49.91[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Baloch[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27,86[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]29.17[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]37,82[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SW-Asian[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13,9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13.43[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10.88[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NE-Euro[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3,92[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.01[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8,27[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6.66[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]S-Indian[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2,23[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1.05[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1,08[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]W-African[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0.11[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0.33[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0,57[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Beringian[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NE-Asian[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Papuan[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0,36[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0.35[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]American[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0,98[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]San[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]E-African[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Pygmy[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0.03[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Goga = post-modern Western Iranians
Iranian Iron Age = ancient Western Iranians / the Medes
Iranian Chalcolithic = Leya-Tepe folks / Sumerian Ubaid period

And some people come and claim that Kurds and Turks are similar. That would mean that Turks are also from the Medes, lol. I mean Turks. What have Turks to do with the ancient Median Magi, Median language etc. Or with the Sumerians who found complex system of algebra/metrology/geometry (advanced mathematics)..


My answer to them is that Kurds belong to an Iranian (/Aryan) PKK race. PKK is Kurdish. Kurds are Aryan. PKK is Aryan. Do Turks also belong to an Aryan PKK race as Kurds? WHAT, are Turks also Aryan PKK like Kurds???


PKK = Kurdish people. Power to the people!

 

[Boreas]

Good point! Iran is Western Iranian, while Afghanistan is Eastern Iranian. Tajikistan is semi Iranian since in Tajikistan live many Uzbek folks. Pakistan is actually mostly part of the Indian world. The only difference is that Pakistan is Islamic, while India is Hindu.

So, there is only 1 West Iranian independent state. And even that state is multi cultural.

Did you look at Turkic States from that perspective?

You said

Yes, you know why? Because Turks have already many states in Central Asia: Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan. Is it not ENOUGH???

but only Turkey, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan are South Turkic / Oghuz countries (lingustical).

Turkey: Same as Iran, also Turkey is a multi cultural state (What were you said before 30million Kurds in Turkey-All Turkey is less then 80 million),

Azerbaijan: More then half of Azeri people live in Iran.

Turkmenistan:

Tajikistan: Tajik 84.3%, Uzbek 13.8% (includes Lakai, Kongrat, Katagan, Barlos, Yuz), other 2% (includes Kyrgyz, Russian, Turkmen, Tatar, Arab)
Turkmenistan: Turkmen 85%, Uzbek 5%, Russian 4%, other 6%
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2075.html

Kurdish is a language on it own. It has its own 'group'. All Kurdish dialect/languages are part of the separate Kurdish group. I don't understand Farsi at all, although many words are similar to Kurdish so I do understand only words..

I know that Zaza people can't understand Kurmancı, what about Sorani people?

Don't know much about Seljuks, but their roots and language were Turanic, rooted in Central Asia.

It is like, I am living in Istanbul but don't know Byzantine.

Culture is huge area language is just a branch of it.

All Kurmanji Kurds are Ezdi Kurds. Islam was imposed on them, they are not real Muslims.

So, all Turks are tengrist, there still tengristic behaviour under their islam, İslam was imposed on them.

But the Yezidism is an ethnoreligion. Yezidism is part of our Kurdish ethnicity, our Kurdishness.

ı know, and ı find it interesting. Such as some Kurds and Turks are using word Alevi, instead of their nationality.

I do prefer a federal Ezdi state within Great Kurdistan. A federal Ezdi State within Great Kurdistan should have its own religious holidays and its own rules in accordance to the Ezdi religion. Also, I do believe in an 'Aryan Union' with the Persians.

What about sons of Tur?

According to my people there is only 1 GOD, but GOD created Kurds separatly from the rest of the mankind. God also created 7 angels. 1 of those angels is Melek Taus. He is a chief (boss) of those other 6 angels. Kurds (Ezdi) are people of the Melek Taus (chief of 7 angels). But by Aryan God I meant 'Melek Taus'. According to our mythology Melek Taus is the ruler of our world, our 'reality'. There are 7 dimensions or 7 'realities' and Melek Taus is the ruler of our 'dimension'/reality/world.

I know religion can be very confusing, but I want and choose to believe in it.

Thanks for the info

 

[Goga]

I know that Zaza people can't understand Kurmancı, what about Sorani people?

Not sure what you are trying to say, but Farsi is a SOUTHWestern Iranian lanuage. While Kurdish is a Northwestern Iranian language. All Kurdic dialects are Northwestern, including Zazaki/Gorani and Sorani.

Kurmanji, Feyli, Gorani/Zazaki, Sorani are all dialects evolved from proto-Kurdic, NorthWest Iranian. All of them have the same roots. But because of the mountains and geography there is a variation of dialects within a pan-Kurdic group.

You can see this everywheren, from Germany to Italy. I mean in Italy people in Southern Italy speak their own local Italian dialect. People from northern Italy have hard times to understand it. Even in a such a small flat country as Holland there are many dialects..