New distribution map of haplogroup E-M123

[kingdavid]

from someone at twitter :
i guess most of 12% e1b1b1 in assyrians should be e-m34 and e-v13

 

[Harutyan Jort]

i believe it will be found there in the end
we don't have enough remains
and egypt as a country don't rush to published results
so it is complicated situation with that country
do you know
if copts carry e-m123?

p.s
asking since i believe copts should reflect more isolated group in modern egypt

yeah, I guess that might be the same case of E-M123 in ancient Turkmenistan, that guy's autosomal is so Iran-neolithioc that no population in central asia and south asia today can score more Iran-neolithioc components than him! yet you don't see ancient E-M123 sample in Iran

 

[Harutyan Jort]

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00439-003-1031-4
old but not outdated Y dna on Turkey national wide
E-M123=29/523=5.54%

 

[kingdavid]

this paper in russian

Полиморфизм микросателлитных локусов Y-хромосомы у крымских караимов и крымских татар | Патогенез

pathogenesis.pro

looked at the y chromosomes in crimean karaites , and crimean tatars
(samples from actual crimea)
( 23 y-str predicted by nevgen predictor)
4/26 15% e-m123>m34 in crimean karaites ( 3/26 e-z841 + 1/26 e-m84)

EK-10,EK-14,EK-57-e-m34>z841 ( likely e-y2947)
EK-51- e-m84 (likely e-y5435)

p.s
Crimean tatars at this research don't carry e1b1b1 at all
it is interesting that crimean karaites fall on different branches of e-z841 , e-m84 from ashkenazi jews
e-z841>y2947 and e-m84>y5435
maybe the source of there e-m34 is from caucasus or from turkic source

Crimean Karaites - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[kingdavid]

i will not let this thread to be dead
very old paper still snp tested
1/34 2.9% e-m123 in corsica (the 34 samples were taken from corte and bastia)


source:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/10738735_Peopling_of_three_Mediterranean_Islands_Corsica_Sardinia_and_Sicily_inferred_by_Y-chromosome_biallelic_variability

p.s
since the snp was only to the e-m123 level
this 1 e-m123 haplotype could be under e-ft20896 though it doesn't have to be e-m34

 

[kingdavid]

while i dont know since the quality of that sample if it was
e-pf1962
e-pf1962>m123,
e-pf1962>m123>ft20896
e-pf1962>m123>m34>z841
there was a paper in 2016 by hofmanova :
Palaeogenomic and Biostatistical Analysis of Ancient DNA Data from Mesolithic and Neolithic Skeletal Remains
in it they mentioned Bar11 as e1b1b1-m35

that is the ancesteral and derived form in the position 21741703 (which defined e-m35)

and now a week ago i saw at ftdna discover that they defined Bar11 as under e-z830
which is amazing find more natural would be e-L618 and that would explain his enterence to balkan europe and
it is based on a paper by hofmanova from the year 2022

Between fishing and farming: palaeogenomic analyses reveal cross-cultural interactions triggered by the arrival of the Neolithic in the Danube Gorges

While early Neolithic populations in Europe were largely descended from early Aegean farmers, there is also evidence of episodic gene flow from local Mesolithic hunter-gatherers into early Neolithic communities. Exactly how and where this occurred is still unknown. Here we report direct evidence...

www.biorxiv.org

p.s
most of the individuals from that site were under y haplogroup G to find e1b1b1 at that site from 6600-6000bc
would be amazing beyond words hope ftdna discover tool are true here


the ytree site kindly uploaded him kudos to him

Bar11 - E-Z830 / X - 祖源树TheYtree

ç¥æºæ TheYtreeä¼åæ ·æ¬ï¼Bar11

www.theytree.com

 

[kingdavid]

interesting rare case :
MGS294 an individual from 7-8th century (avar period) austria

E-Y82779 - 祖源树TheYtree（基因溯源，免费上树，电子家谱）祖缘树, 父系树

E-Y82779 - 祖源树TheYtree，也称 祖缘树 全球首个致力于基因寻根溯源服务的公益性网站，不分肤色，不分国籍，不分姓氏，只要你有做父系基因检测，都免费上祖源树，永不磨灭的电子家谱！

www.theytree.com

source:

ENA Browser

ENA Browser

www.ebi.ac.uk

his g25 values:
MoedlingAdGS_AvarPeriod:MGS294.A0101,0.126344,0.146236,0.02753,-0.007429,0.028621,-0.007251,0.00282,0.001154,0.0045,0.021322,0.001949,0.01079,-0.012042,0.00234,-0.008686,0.015248,0.02712,0.001267,0.000754,0.004377,-0.004367,-0.003586,-0.000739,0.009278,-0.002754

no mongolid elements :
58.4% TUR_Bar_N
37.2% Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
4.4% WHG



p.s
he is closest to Albanians and north Macedonians
he was probably some south Balkan soldier who moved to Austrian territory
at some point
all the other e1b1b1 cases from this research fall on the typical European e-v13

 

[Valerius]

interesting rare case :
MGS294 an individual from 7-8th century (avar period) austria

E-Y82779 - 祖源树TheYtree（基因溯源，免费上树，电子家谱）祖缘树, 父系树

E-Y82779 - 祖源树TheYtree，也称 祖缘树 全球首个致力于基因寻根溯源服务的公益性网站，不分肤色，不分国籍，不分姓氏，只要你有做父系基因检测，都免费上祖源树，永不磨灭的电子家谱！

www.theytree.com

source:

ENA Browser

ENA Browser

www.ebi.ac.uk

his g25 values:
MoedlingAdGS_AvarPeriod:MGS294.A0101,0.126344,0.146236,0.02753,-0.007429,0.028621,-0.007251,0.00282,0.001154,0.0045,0.021322,0.001949,0.01079,-0.012042,0.00234,-0.008686,0.015248,0.02712,0.001267,0.000754,0.004377,-0.004367,-0.003586,-0.000739,0.009278,-0.002754

no mongolid elements :
58.4% TUR_Bar_N
37.2% Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
4.4% WHG



p.s
he is closest to Albanians and north Macedonians
he was probably some south Balkan soldier who moved to Austrian territory
at some point
all the other e1b1b1 cases from this research fall on the typical European e-v13

He seems half Illyrian in my estimation. This plus the 10% Slavic is shifting him in northern direction compared to what was the norm in the Southern Balkans.

Remarkably, his haplogroups is present in a modern Austrian person with TMRCA 950 ybp - the haplogroup appears to bear an East-Med Byzantine connection:

Target: MoedlingAdGS_AvarPeriod:MGS294.A0101
Distance: 1.8110% / 0.01810994
55.2 Illyirian_CRO
18.6 Thracian-Kapitan-Andreevo
12.4 Anatolia
11.6 Slavic
1.2 Illyirian_ALB
1.0 Medieval_Turkic_KAZ_Kipchak

 

[kingdavid]

He seems half Illyrian in my estimation. This plus the 10% Slavic is shifting him in northern direction compared to what was the norm in the Southern Balkans.

Remarkably, his haplogroups is present in a modern Austrian person with TMRCA 950 ybp - the haplogroup appears to bear an East-Med Byzantine connection:

Target: MoedlingAdGS_AvarPeriod:MGS294.A0101
Distance: 1.8110% / 0.01810994
55.2 Illyirian_CRO
18.6 Thracian-Kapitan-Andreevo
12.4 Anatolia
11.6 Slavic
1.2 Illyirian_ALB
1.0 Medieval_Turkic_KAZ_Kipchak

Yes a fascinating branch e-y82779 in yfull
Is equivalent to e-by49153 at ftdna

Welcome to FamilyTreeDNA Discover

Discover more about your paternal ancestry and join in on the research!

discover.familytreedna.com

It look like it originated in late bronze age likely south levant and from there spread
during the roman period and byzantine time

 

[kingdavid]

another fascinating case from far a way china (xi'an)
tang period 618-907 AD individual XFLDM850--e-m84>pf6751

was uploaded to theytree site:

XFLDM850 HRR1951959 唐代长安兴福林岱 (XFLD) 遗址 - E-Z21014 / D4 - 祖源树TheYtree

祖源树TheYtree样本：XFLDM850 HRR1951959 唐代长安兴福林岱 (XFLD) 遗址

www.theytree.com

source:

Ancient genomes from the Tang Dynasty capital reveal the genetic legacy of trans-Eurasian communication at the eastern end of Silk Road - BMC Biology

Background Ancient Chang’an in the Tang Dynasty (618–907 AD) was one of the world’s largest and most populated cities and acted as the eastern end of the world-famous Silk Road. However, little is known about the genetics of Chang’an people and whether the Western Regions-related gene flows have...

bmcbiol.biomedcentral.com

p.s
e-pf6751 is the most successful downstream of e-m84 spread in all directions
this specific individual carried close to 15% west Eurasian ancestry
likely his direct paternal line arrived that east with arab or another west asian trader

 

[kingdavid]

i didn't post this research here before (maybe on the e-v22 thread)


iberian itallian paper- 23 y-str markers + known snp e-m215( the non e-v13 cases -e-m123, e-v22,e-v12,e-m81)

i bolded below the e-m123 downstream cases

balleric islands :

ibizia 102 samples:
IBI122-e-m123>by45422
p.s
total 0.9% 1/102 e-m123(x m34)


majorca 99 samples :
MAJ25-e-m81(likely e-pf2546)
MAJ30-e-v22(likely e-ph2818)
MAJ59-e-v22(e-v22)
MAJ82-e-m81(likely e-pf2546)
MAJ91-e-m81(likely e-pf2546)
MAJ99-e-m81(likely e-pf2546)
p.s
total 3-4% 4/99 e-m81


minorca 62 samples:
MIN5-e-v22(likely e-ph2818)
MIN7-e-m81(likely e-pf2546)
MIN12-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
MIN16-e-v22(likely e-by7446)
MIN18-e-v12(likely e-cts693)
MIN20-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
MIN25-e-v22(likely e-by7466)
MIN35-e-m81(likely e-pf2546)
p.s
total 3.2% 2/62 e-m81
total 3.2% 2/62 e-m34








south italy :

catanzaro 60 samples:
CTR13-e-v12(likely e-cts693)
CTR22-e-v22(e-v22)
CTR37-e-v22
CTR40-e-v22(likely e-ph2818)
CTR60-e-m34>z841( likely e-y4972)
p.s
total 1.6% 1/60 e-m34


cosenza 37 samples:
CSZ3-e-pf1975(likely e-by392)
CSZ13-e-v22
CSZ19-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
CSZ21-e-v22
CSZ29-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
CSZ38-e-v22
p.s
total 2.7% 1/37 e-pf1975
total 5.4% 2/37 e-m34 (e-m84)


reggio di calabria 101 samples :
RC1-e-m84(likely e-m84)
RC11-e-v22(likely L1250)
RC32-e-v22(likely L1250)
RC33-e-v12(likely e-cts693)
RC37-e-m81(likely e-pf2546)
RC38-e-m34>z841>z21466
RC39-e-m123>pf4428(likely e-pf4428)
RC43-e-v12(likely e-cts693)
RC57-e-v22(likely e-ph2818)
RC58-e-m84(likely e-y5435)
RC61-e-m34>z841(likely e-y2947)
RC68-e-v22(likely L1250)
RC71-e-v22
RC86-e-m84( likely e-pf6751)
RC87-e-m34 ( likely e-z841>by13750 or e-m84)
RC88-e-m34>z841(likely e-y2947)
RC92- e-v12( likely e-cts693)
RC94- e-m34>z841( likely e-y2947)
p.s
total 0.9% 1/101 e-m123(x m34)
total 0.9% 1/101 e-m81
total 6.9%-7.9% 7-8/101 e-m34



source:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2405844024113606

 

[kingdavid]

4/100 4% in turkmen ( 23 y-str markers prediction by nevgen
of total 100 samples who were mainly from dashoguz province)

E-m84 cases:
Sample 29
Sample 41
Sample 59
Sample 86

this region

Daşoguz Region - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Source:

https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4425/15/12/1501




p.s
the dominant y haplogroup in Turkmen look to be y haplogroup Q

 

[Aahmes]

4/100 4% in turkmen ( 23 y-str markers prediction by nevgen
of total 100 samples who were mainly from dashoguz province)

E-m84 cases:
Sample 29
Sample 41
Sample 59
Sample 86


View attachment 17062


this region

Daşoguz Region - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Source:

https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4425/15/12/1501




p.s
the dominant y haplogroup in Turkmen look to be y haplogroup Q

In many studies I find that some STRs have a decimal value. An example here is DYS458 for Sample 8 has a value of 17.2.

Does anyone know what this represents? If testing this sample's predicted haplogroup on Nevgen for example do we just plug in 17?

 

[Ricardo]

DYS458.2 usually (almost always) is J1, but

Y-chromosome Short Tandem Repeat DYS458.2 Non-consensus Alleles Occur Independently in Both Binary Haplogroups J1-M267 and R1b3-M405
Croat Med J. 2007 Aug;48(4):450–459.

Y-chromosome Short Tandem Repeat DYS458.2 Non-consensus Alleles Occur Independently in Both Binary Haplogroups J1-M267 and R1b3-M405 - PMC

To determine the human Y-chromosome haplogroup backgrounds of non-consensus DYS458.2 short tandem repeat alleles and evaluate their phylogenetic substructure and frequency in representative samples from the Middle East, Europe, and Pakistan. ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Khopesh_Wielder]

another fascinating case from far a way china (xi'an)
tang period 618-907 AD individual XFLDM850--e-m84>pf6751

was uploaded to theytree site:

XFLDM850 HRR1951959 唐代长安兴福林岱 (XFLD) 遗址 - E-Z21014 / D4 - 祖源树TheYtree

祖源树TheYtree样本：XFLDM850 HRR1951959 唐代长安兴福林岱 (XFLD) 遗址

www.theytree.com

View attachment 17014


source:

Ancient genomes from the Tang Dynasty capital reveal the genetic legacy of trans-Eurasian communication at the eastern end of Silk Road - BMC Biology

Background Ancient Chang’an in the Tang Dynasty (618–907 AD) was one of the world’s largest and most populated cities and acted as the eastern end of the world-famous Silk Road. However, little is known about the genetics of Chang’an people and whether the Western Regions-related gene flows have...

bmcbiol.biomedcentral.com

p.s
e-pf6751 is the most successful downstream of e-m84 spread in all directions
this specific individual carried close to 15% west Eurasian ancestry
likely his direct paternal line arrived that east with arab or another west asian trader

interesting rare case :
MGS294 an individual from 7-8th century (avar period) austria

E-Y82779 - 祖源树TheYtree（基因溯源，免费上树，电子家谱）祖缘树, 父系树

E-Y82779 - 祖源树TheYtree，也称 祖缘树 全球首个致力于基因寻根溯源服务的公益性网站，不分肤色，不分国籍，不分姓氏，只要你有做父系基因检测，都免费上祖源树，永不磨灭的电子家谱！

www.theytree.com

source:

ENA Browser

ENA Browser

www.ebi.ac.uk

his g25 values:
MoedlingAdGS_AvarPeriod:MGS294.A0101,0.126344,0.146236,0.02753,-0.007429,0.028621,-0.007251,0.00282,0.001154,0.0045,0.021322,0.001949,0.01079,-0.012042,0.00234,-0.008686,0.015248,0.02712,0.001267,0.000754,0.004377,-0.004367,-0.003586,-0.000739,0.009278,-0.002754

no mongolid elements :
58.4% TUR_Bar_N
37.2% Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
4.4% WHG



p.s
he is closest to Albanians and north Macedonians
he was probably some south Balkan soldier who moved to Austrian territory
at some point
all the other e1b1b1 cases from this research fall on the typical European e-v13

Interesting findings, I predict his ancestots to have been Idumean auxillary in the Roman Legions and gained citizenship after his service and assimilated into Roman Pannonia, as there are two other E-M34 samples (but E-Z841 in this case) in Roman-era Serbia and Croatia with close TMRCAs to the Near East.

The Chinese sample is even more interesting, as it looks like it predates Arab arrival to China so he might have Syriac origins as Syriac Christians were in China in the Early Middle Ages.

 

[kingdavid]

Interesting findings, I predict his ancestots to have been Idumean auxillary in the Roman Legions and gained citizenship after his service and assimilated into Roman Pannonia, as there are two other E-M34 samples (but E-Z841 in this case) in Roman-era Serbia and Croatia with close TMRCAs to the Near East.

The Chinese sample is even more interesting, as it looks like it predates Arab arrival to China so he might have Syriac origins as Syriac Christians were in China in the Early Middle Ages.

that is indeed an option
but even if his direct paternal line came ultimately from the sunny and savage levant
his total autosomal profile doesn't look Levantine his closest by his g25 values to modern day albanians and north macedonians
to me that suggest that he may have came to the Austrian territory from the south Balkan
or that his ancestors came from that place




K105

distance to MGS294:
0.03855694 Albania
0.03934733 North_Macedonia

​

 

[kingdavid]

natufian from el wad construction ( given there is a huge chance he was e-z830)
i say interesting
der Großvater


P.s
To be honest his face screams e1b1b1
he look like eritrean

El Wad - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[kingdavid]

Nice

Ancient genomics support deep divergence between Eastern and Western Mediterranean Indo-European languages

The Indo-European languages are among the most widely spoken in the world, yet their early diversification remains contentious[1][1]–[5][2]. It is widely accepted that the spread of this language family across Europe from the 5th millennium BP correlates with the expansion and diversification of...

www.biorxiv.org

Some e-m123 cases ( probably e-pf6751)
From bronze age
Anatolia ,syria ,cyprus

CGG_2_022160- kulluoba-turkey rise1439-2300bc

CGG_2_022497- lapithos-cyprus-tomb315-1700 bc

CGG_2_101879-tall sukas-syria-kranium 8a5-1700bc

CGG_2_101880-tall sukas-syria-kranium 9-45-1700 bc







P.s
Also worth mention in the e1b1b1 arena:
This paper found e-m78> L618 case in bronze age phocis greece
And e-m78>v22 case in bronze age lebanon sidon
Maybe e-v22 did spread with pheonicians after all

 

[Khopesh_Wielder]

that is indeed an option
but even if his direct paternal line came ultimately from the sunny and savage levant
his total autosomal profile doesn't look Levantine his closest by his g25 values to modern day albanians and north macedonians
to me that suggest that he may have came to the Austrian territory from the south Balkan
or that his ancestors came from that place




K105

distance to MGS294:
0.03855694 Albania
0.03934733 North_Macedonia

​

Yes he resembles Balkan people but what I am trying to say is that his ancestors from generations ago moved from the Levant to Europe by gaining Roman citizenship. An example is like myself, my father is Levantine Arab but moved to the west and married my mother who is of Italian and Iberian heritage which produced me. If I don't marry a Middle Eastern woman but end up with a European my descendants will genetically end up European.

natufian from el wad construction ( given there is a huge chance he was e-z830)
i say interesting
der Großvater


P.s
To be honest his face screams e1b1b1
he look like eritrean

View attachment 17122

El Wad - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He looks like the people of Soqotra, interestingly all of them are either J1 or J2 as both modern and medieval Soqotrans don't have any branch of E as per the Yemen DNA project and Sirak et. al 2024. But in the end these reconstructions are all hypothetical without genetic testing.

Nice

Ancient genomics support deep divergence between Eastern and Western Mediterranean Indo-European languages

The Indo-European languages are among the most widely spoken in the world, yet their early diversification remains contentious[1][1]–[5][2]. It is widely accepted that the spread of this language family across Europe from the 5th millennium BP correlates with the expansion and diversification of...

www.biorxiv.org

Some e-m123 cases ( probably e-pf6751)
From bronze age
Anatolia ,syria ,cyprus

CGG_2_022160- kulluoba-turkey rise1439-2300bc

CGG_2_022497- lapithos-cyprus-tomb315-1700 bc

CGG_2_101879-tall sukas-syria-kranium 8a5-1700bc

CGG_2_101880-tall sukas-syria-kranium 9-45-1700 bc







P.s
Also worth mention in the e1b1b1 arena:
This paper found e-m78> L618 case in bronze age phocis greece
And e-m78>v22 case in bronze age lebanon sidon
Maybe e-v22 did spread with pheonicians after all

Now this right here is a great discovery which I also saw it on twitter.

Tell Sukas was an Amorite town in the Kingdom of Yamhad during the Bronze Age, which makes those two samples to be the first remains of E-M123 (now confirmed to be downstream to E-M84) among the Amorites, as previously the only E-M123/34/84 that were in Syria was at the East-Semitic city of Ebla.

 

[kingdavid]

E-m84> pf6751 look like one of the branches of the ancient canaanites
We got cases from :
1)Hatzor
2)Megido
3)Ebla (syria)
4)tell sukas (syria)
(only asigned to e-m84> y5427 level but if it was on better coverage likely also under e-pf6751)

P.s
I Hope future research on ancient remains from levant
will found the e-m123>ft20896 and
e-m123>m34>z841 branches there
Because those branches also look old in this region If we look at dates in the y tree