New distribution map of haplogroup E-M123

kingjohn said:
nice research thanks (y)
yes could be that modern pakistani e-m123 fall on this e-ft377116 branch which
was found in late bronze age/ early iron age swat in north pakistan
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/E-FT179548/ancient
or sadly this south central asian line which is derived from e-m123>ft20896 has died out in that area of the world
and modern day pakistani e-m123 lines are later arrivals or other branches like e-m123>m34>m84>pf6751
future will tell

p.s
about pakistan indeed 241 milion is huge but not all of them are males
only half
it still leave us with something like potential 700,000 e-m123 who walks down in the streets and valleys of pakistan ;)
Click to expand...
bro, according to Pakistan census, male population is 51% of pakistan population, then it is 123.165million, this times1.14% is indeed 1.4million+ people!
back to e-m123>ft20896 Pakistani ancient samples, based on what I see of autosomal model, they seems to be close to modern Pashtun people autosomally; and because one of my guilty pleasures when I first heard from an elderman of Pashtun descent claiming "Pashtun are one of the lost tribe of Israelites" I do smirk at the time seeing these samples, however realising it is far-away from E-M34>M84 semitic backbones, I had to say the whole "Pashtun-Israelite connection" is a terrible trope :ROFLMAO:
 
Harutyan Jort said:
bro, according to Pakistan census, male population is 51% of pakistan population, then it is 123.165million, this times1.14% is indeed 1.4million+ people!
back to e-m123>ft20896 Pakistani ancient samples, based on what I see of autosomal model, they seems to be close to modern Pashtun people autosomally; and because one of my guilty pleasures when I first heard from an elderman of Pashtun descent claiming "Pashtun are one of the lost tribe of Israelites" I do smirk at the time seeing these samples, however realising it is far-away from E-M34>M84 semitic backbones, I had to say the whole "Pashtun-Israelite connection" is a terrible trope :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...


very cool so it is 1.4 milion after all :LOL:
there is one haplogroup that might be some connection between those two don't
know exactley when and why though his name:
G2C

Haplogroup G-M377 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org


source
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Afghanistan from a Y-chromosome perspective

Central Asia has served as a corridor for human migrations providing trading routes since ancient times. It has functioned as a conduit connecting Europe and the Middle East with South Asia and far Eastern civilizations. Therefore, the study of populations ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov




p.s
yes i know the common ancestor goes far to late chalcolithic
but still very interesting connection

G-Y12292 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com






1704384382057.png
 
stay on topic...
let's move to New world-----South America
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4821637/
E-M123: 12/1217=0.986% brazilian males,still makes it 978thousands guys when you have 203million people national-wide
btw:Brazil also has sizeable lebanese and sephardic jewish communities(after Argentina )
 
yfull has 2219 United States samples, since 24 are E-M123 and its sub-branches, frequency is 24/2219=1.08%
1.77million E-M123 people!
 
back to North Africa, generally speaking this place is a hotspot for my fellow J1 cousins, not so for E-M123 dudes, however, the place more phoenician settled in have higher frequency of E-M123(as for Morocco, the E-m123 is way below 1%,like 0.3% since there are not so many Phoenician Ports), so let's begin with Algeria
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00414-007-0203-5
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1216069/
combine these 2 literatures we have 102 samples from Oran 35 for algiers and 19 for Tizi Ouzou
E-M123=2/156=1.3%
since most Algerian (95%) live on coastal Area not much Inland, 1.3% would be reliable frequency
 
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as with the similar case in Algeria, Tunisia also follow the pattern where people live predominantly on costal cosmopolitant region (which is heavily settled by phonecians since antiquity) I use samples from city Tunis and Sousse and adjact areas
https://www.nature.com/articles/jhg201499
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1216069/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8333252/
148 from Tunis and 220 from Sousse,95 arabs from Kairouan and Wesletia
E-m123=10/463=2.159%
that make sense since most Phoenicians settled in Carthage city(Tunis) and costal area of Algeria, so we have relatively higher % of E-M123 compare to Morocco
5177.png
 
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Harutyan Jort said:
as with the similar case in Algeria, Tunisia also follow the pattern where people live predominantly on costal cosmopolitant region (which is heavily settled by phonecians since antiquity) I use samples from city Tunis and Sousse and adjact areas
https://www.nature.com/articles/jhg201499
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1216069/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8333252/
148 from Tunis and 220 from Sousse,95 arabs from Kairouan and Wesletia
E-m123=10/463=2.159%
that make sense since most Phoenicians settled in Carthage city(Tunis) and costal area of Algeria, so we have relatively higher % of E-M123 compare to Morocco
5177.png
Click to expand...

i think e-m123 was also a minor element that was brought during the arab invasion of north africa in the 7th century
 
kingjohn said:
i think e-m123 was also a minor element that was brought during the arab invasion of north africa in the 7th century
Click to expand...
yep, there are for sure J-P58 ,E-M123, E-V22 and some minor J2, T migrating from Arabia, but it did not increase the percentage of J1 and E-M123 in Morocco :unsure:
 
kingjohn said:
e-m34 occure in 10% in hazara from bamyan ( i assume they will probably be under e-pf6751 and e-y5435 if farther downstream will be done)
source :
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0076748

bamyan province inside the hazarajat :
250px-Bamyan_in_Afghanistan.svg.png



p.s
interesting
it is likely some remnants from the native iranic speakers
who were absorbed by the mongols who invaded afghanistan :unsure:
from wikipedia:
Notably, the Qara'unas, the Central AsianChagatai Turco-Mongols, the Ilkhanate and the Timurids, all of whom settled in Hazarajat and mixed with the local populations.
Haz4.jpg
Click to expand...
I guess they might be related to ancient afghanistan samples :unsure:
 
kingjohn said:
thanks(y)
4.1% not high but still present
from ancient dna data
dated to bronze age armenia
we now know in the past e-m123 was more important in that region
Click to expand...
well, indeed 3200ybp they showed up in today's Armenia, geographically they were in Lesser Caucasus mountain range at least 3200 years ago so they are by literally meaning the most "Caucasian" branch of all E family :ROFLMAO:
just in addition to it, what I find intruding is that my J people showed up in Levant less than 5000 years ago
https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient...chcolumn=Country&searchfor=Syria&ybp=500000,0
https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient...column=Country&searchfor=LEBANON&ybp=500000,0
https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient...hcolumn=Country&searchfor=ISRAEL&ybp=500000,0
https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient...hcolumn=Country&searchfor=JORDAN&ybp=500000,0
while just one Arslantepe E-M123 sample in eastern anatolia/north mesopotamia alone is 5200ybp, so E-M123 can claim indigenous Anatolian if J-P58 is "ancient proto semitic Y":p
 
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Harutyan Jort said:
well, indeed 3200ybp they showed up in today's Armenia, so geographically they were in Lesser Caucasus mountain range at least 3200 years ago so they are by literally meaning the most "Caucasian" branch of all E family :ROFLMAO:
just in addition to it, what I find intruding is that my J people showed up in Levant less than 5000 years ago
https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient...chcolumn=Country&searchfor=Syria&ybp=500000,0
https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient...column=Country&searchfor=LEBANON&ybp=500000,0
https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient...hcolumn=Country&searchfor=ISRAEL&ybp=500000,0
https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient...hcolumn=Country&searchfor=JORDAN&ybp=500000,0
while just one Arslantepe E-M123 sample in eastern anatolia/north mesopotamia alone is 5200ybp, so E-M123 can claim indigenous Anatolian if J-P58 is "ancient proto semitic Y":p
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j-p58 is a very cool branch ( and yes it is relatively the "most semitic downstream of j1" )
though there are also j-p58 minoan remains from crete
there is: a future paper on phoenician
i even tried to contact the german lead researcher with no success
but at least some phoenician remains from sardinia if i am not wrong here
will show j-p58

p.s
the arslantepe dude is under e-pf6751 like most ancient remains from the near east who fall under e-m84
 
kingjohn said:
a yemeni yseq tester look like important one
created a splitt inside e-m84 ;)
View attachment 14374


according to theytree site: he is under e-m84 branch but not in his downstream e-y5417
View attachment 14373
Click to expand...


now the yemeni sample splitt
the yfull tree to e-y5413+ ( while the yemeni sample negetive for it )
this yemeni yseq sample is very important to the structure of e-m84 tree

p.s
the qatari sample is under e-b406 because in yfull they need at least 2 members to create new branch
so in yfull it doesnt appear but at ftdna
there are 3 members under e-b406 : a qatari, a bahraini, uzbeki jew

1704980940618.png


1704981239414.png
 
kingjohn said:
now the yemeni sample splitt
the yfull tree to e-y5413+ ( while the yemeni sample negetive for it )
this yemeni yseq sample is very important to the structure of e-m84 tree

p.s
the qatari sample is under e-b406 because in yfull they need at least 2 members to create new branch
so in yfull it doesnt appear but at ftdna
there are 3 members under e-b406 : a qatari, a bahraini, uzbeki jew

View attachment 15045

View attachment 15046
Click to expand...
wow, this split is historic! also 1 thing I find interesting is that there's no ancient samples for E-M123 in Egypt!
we even have J G and E-V38 E-V22 samples in ancient Egypt, yet being 7% of today's Egyptian male, E-M123 is missing in ancient Egyptian samples... that makes me thinking of a possible Hyksos connection... :unsure:
 
Harutyan Jort said:
wow, this split is historic! also 1 thing I find interesting is that there's no ancient samples for E-M123 in Egypt!
we even have J G and E-V38 E-V22 samples in ancient Egypt, yet being 7% of today's Egyptian male, E-M123 is missing in ancient Egyptian samples... that makes me thinking of a possible Hyksos connection... :unsure:
Click to expand...

i believe it will be found there in the end
we don't have enough remains
and egypt as a country don't rush to published results
so it is complicated situation with that country
do you know
if copts carry e-m123?

p.s
asking since i believe copts should reflect more isolated group in modern egypt
 
I think E-M123 is the ur-semitic line; its E1b1b cousins are all connected to Afroasiatic languages, while J1 is heavily bottlenecked and only really proliferated after P58 joined the early Semitic community.
 
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