Updated phylogenetic tree of E-V13

[14peaks]

Mmm yea that last paragraph makes a lot of sense, i kinda like the thracian idea too. But yeah two coastal adriatic results as the only archaeological finds is wild considering where all this line ended up. Gonna buy some books on the Mediterranean and Balkan metal ages and hopefully more dna pops up sooner than later, very intrigued now.

Thanks again !

Edit: just realized the trogir is a newborn baby, that’s insane to think about

Another edit sorry, is there a way to get my results on yfull without the subclade listed on there or do i have to wait until more tests come back ?

Hi mate

I am also paternally Deep Maniot (J2a though) and intrigued by your results. Do you know more about your paternal line. For example the paternal village’s name in Eastern Mani?

 

[dskos99]

Hi mate

I am also paternally Deep Maniot (J2a though) and intrigued by your results. Do you know more about your paternal line. For example the paternal village’s name in Eastern Mani?

Yea! My great grandpa was from Chimara and my great grandma was from Gonea both outside of Kotronas. My great grandma was Cretan though. They immigrated with my grandpa and since then my families been in the states. We didn’t get the chance to test my grandpas autosomal, i would have loved to see it. But based on dads and his siblings it would have been close to 100% greek if not 100% (only one of my grandpas kids got 1% balkans and the only other mediterannean was 2% Cypriot). What town are yall from ? Also do you want to know the surnames ?

Edit: 100 percent Greek as in mainland + islands

 

[dskos99]

YFull assigns to according to your results and the available samples on your branch. Like my own result is much less refined on YFull, since much less people have uploaded there than there are FTDNA branch members.

On second thought, its also possible that if your branch was South Thracian, it could have migrated earlier with Greeks and Romans still, over the sea, than those which might have come in later, like those from the Danube and North of it.
Also, your branch while relatively small is still diverse enoughf or allowing subbranches having gone different routes early on.

THE SEA PEOPLES RAHHH. Just kidding obvs but having formed ~1200 years ago it makes it hard to see the migrations until the Greco-Roman days, again gonna dig into the books. I think there’s either a layered, slow migration or a multifaceted migration around the Black Sea or carpathian basin as that’s the only way i can think of it spreading out in multiple directions with varying clades like it did (obviously spread through seafaring too with the greco-romans). Migrating from there to south Thrace and then staying in a community for a while before making its way over to the peloponnese does make sense. I’ll update with anything relevant i find in the books !

Edit sorry for the new account i had two emails on here and signed in with the other one my bad hahah

 

[dskos77]

THE SEA PEOPLES RAHHH. Just kidding obvs but having formed ~1200 years ago it makes it hard to see the migrations until the Greco-Roman days, again gonna dig into the books. I think there’s either a layered, slow migration or a multifaceted migration around the Black Sea or carpathian basin as that’s the only way i can think of it spreading out in multiple directions with varying clades like it did (obviously spread through seafaring too with the greco-romans). Migrating from there to south Thrace and then staying in a community for a while before making its way over to the peloponnese does make sense. I’ll update with anything relevant i find in the books !

Edit sorry for the new account i had two emails on here and signed in with the other one my bad hahah

only using the 77 acct from now on btw sorry about that

Also, could a group like the catacomb culture be how e-v13 potentially got down to Thrace (assuming Thrace is right for the sake of argument) ? E-by3880 spread throughout Europe and the steppe via catacombs. An IE got to Thrace maybe via a multi cordoned ware connection and then stayed there. Then in the dark ages and reemergence of Greek civilization it spread enough to then end up in Croatia and the Peloponnese? Just spitballing and this is assuming a southeastern Europe/thracian connection.

 

[Riverman]

Catacomb culture was largely steppe and Yamnaya derived, rather not.

I think that Cotofeni might have been the main spreader of E-V13 in the earliest period, or better it survived in Cotofeni, because at that time E-V13 was a very small male lineage still. It began to grow only later, in my opinion within Nyirseg and into Eastern Otomani, from there on Suciu de Sus and related groups which created the Gáva/Channelled Ware horizon.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

In the Hungarian conference "Tranformation of Europe in the 3rd Millennium BC", they had a presentation for Cotofeni, in the Day 2 video(first presentation of Day 2). They were quite clear that Cotofeni people survived, as for DNA samples the speaker replied that we have to wait until the Transylvania paper is published. Now we wait and be tormented.

 

[dskos77]

Catacomb culture was largely steppe and Yamnaya derived, rather not.

I think that Cotofeni might have been the main spreader of E-V13 in the earliest period, or better it survived in Cotofeni, because at that time E-V13 was a very small male lineage still. It began to grow only later, in my opinion within Nyirseg and into Eastern Otomani, from there on Suciu de Sus and related groups which created the Gáva/Channelled Ware horizon.

Ahhhh. I’m picking up “the horse the wheel and language”, the “lost world of old Europe: the Danube valley 5000-3500 bce”, “the dark ages of greece”, “the late copper age coțofeni culture of south east Europe”, and “the end of the Bronze Age”. Gonna try to tear thru them i need to get my knowledge levels elevated hahah

 

[Tim]

Hi Maciamo, this is an amazing job you're doing!


I have a question regarding PH1246 - branch of E-V13 that is for some reason not being talked at all on this forum. PH1246 > BY14151 was not included into your tree and that is a branch present only in Serb-Montenegrin clan of Vasojevici, as well as Bobani clan of East Herzegovina (Vasojevici claim Herzegovina origin so these are clearly related). But Vasojevici are not related to any other E-V13 populations living just next to them. For example Bjelopavlici (Serb-Montenegrins) and Kelmendi (Albanians) are E-V13>Z1057>CTS5856>BY3380>Z5017>Z5016>Y3762>CTS6377>CTS9320>Z16988 and Kuci (Serb-Montenegrins) are E-V13>Z1057>CTS5856>BY3380>Z5018>S2979>Z16659>Y3183>S2972>Z16661. So Vasojevici, being not a CTS5856 but a PH1246 branch, have a common ancestor with these neighboring clans that is 4,5 thousand years old!


How is that possible? Any explanation for this?
Also, doesn't this very distant relation of E-V13 clans living next to each other confirm Balkan origin of E-V13?


Thanks again!

Interesting I have never heard of any of that although I have only been doing the Y DNA thing for 5 years. There was a recent discovery made is that my E-CTS2001 branches directly off of E-SK888 I'm confirmed negative for E-CTS6377. I was told that it appears to be of Carpathian Origins?Once Dr. Imre findings are implemented will I still belong to Haplogroup E-Z16988?

 

[ELIOV13]

Ho aggiornato e ampliato l'albero filogenetico dell'aplogruppo E-V13. Ho modificato il layout per mostrare quando ogni clade si è sviluppato nel tempo, in modo da avere un'idea migliore di quando si sono verificate le espansioni regionali.

Molti rami dell'albero sono ancora mancanti. Ci sono pochi campioni greci, italiani, francesi e iberici testati per cladi profondi e quasi nessuno dell'Asia occidentale, fatta eccezione per gli stati del Golfo.

Cliccando sull'albero si accede alla pagina esterna al forum e cliccando ancora una volta si visualizza lo schermo intero.

Ho aggiornato e ampliato l'albero filogenetico dell'aplogruppo E-V13. Ho modificato il layout per mostrare quando ogni clade si è sviluppato nel tempo, in modo da avere un'idea migliore di quando si sono verificate le espansioni regionali.

Molti rami dell'albero sono ancora mancanti. Ci sono pochi campioni greci, italiani, francesi e iberici testati per cladi profondi e quasi nessuno dell'Asia occidentale, fatta eccezione per gli stati del Golfo.

Cliccando sull'albero si accede alla pagina esterna al forum e cliccando ancora una volta si visualizza a schermo intero.

L'aplogruppo y 16729 dovrebbe essere aggiornato. In Italia siamo ora in 4. Poi ci sono anche Grecia, Macedonia e Croazia

 

[ELIOV13]

Ho aggiornato e ampliato l'albero filogenetico dell'aplogruppo E-V13. Ho modificato il layout per mostrare quando ogni clade si è sviluppato nel tempo, in modo da avere un'idea migliore di quando si sono verificate le espansioni regionali.

Molti rami dell'albero sono ancora mancanti. Ci sono pochi campioni greci, italiani, francesi e iberici testati per cladi profondi e quasi nessuno dell'Asia occidentale, fatta eccezione per gli stati del Golfo.

Cliccando sull'albero si accede alla pagina esterna al forum e cliccando ancora una volta si visualizza lo schermo intero.

Ho aggiornato e ampliato l'albero filogenetico dell'aplogruppo E-V13. Ho modificato il layout per mostrare quando ogni clade si è sviluppato nel tempo, in modo da avere un'idea migliore di quando si sono verificate le espansioni regionali.

Molti rami dell'albero sono ancora mancanti. Ci sono pochi campioni greci, italiani, francesi e iberici testati per cladi profondi e quasi nessuno dell'Asia occidentale, fatta eccezione per gli stati del Golfo.

Cliccando sull'albero si accede alla pagina esterna al forum e cliccando ancora una volta si visualizza lo schermo intero.

L'aplogruppo y 16729 dovrebbe essere aggiornato. In Italia siamo ora in 4. Poi ci sono anche Grecia, Macedonia e Croazia

Ho aggiornato e ampliato l'albero filogenetico dell'aplogruppo E-V13. Ho modificato il layout per mostrare quando ogni clade si è sviluppato nel tempo, in modo da avere un'idea migliore di quando si sono verificate le espansioni regionali.

Molti rami dell'albero sono ancora mancanti. Ci sono pochi campioni greci, italiani, francesi e iberici testati per cladi profondi e quasi nessuno dell'Asia occidentale, fatta eccezione per gli stati del Golfo.

Cliccando sull'albero si accede alla pagina esterna al forum e cliccando ancora una volta si visualizza lo schermo intero.

Grazie!

Sì ~1200 a.C. è un periodo molto interessante per avere un LCA. Il by3880 è finito apparentemente ovunque nei registri archeologici su ftdna e anche sull'albero yfull, e poi la linea y16729 è divisa tra Europa e Medio Oriente su yfull, e poi il mio sottoclade è in Germania, Italia, due paesi privati e io in America (il mio sottoclade non è ancora nemmeno su yfull). Non lo so, è molto interessante e un po' misterioso, ho difficoltà a fare ricerche. Ho 27 varianti private e posso condividere i risultati str se questo può aiutare in qualcosa. Inoltre, sto leggendo molti thread su questa roba al momento, siete pazzi con la conoscenza del DNA hahahah

Ciao,e' possibile leggere i tuoi Str .Sono anch'io y16729 .Abito in Italia e la mia famiglia ha origine da Varsi dove erano presenti già nel 1300.In famiglia si e' sempre detto siamo di origine greca.Infatti il mio cognome antico era Perachis.Sto aspettando i risultati per big Y.