New distribution map of haplogroup E-M123

The lack of this in balkans has to rule out phoenician?

The lack of this in many regions of Europe and balkans again maybe rules out being Jewish too, didn't Jews settle in some of those regions where e-m123 is nonexistent/too small? But then again, nazis wiped out a lot of them so difficult to assess so could be Jewish

If you look at the j1 map, it is quite similar. Maybe easy to assume most e-m123 came from middle east & Arabian peninsula in the early muslim conquests of North Africa, Spain/Portugal and South Italy

Can someone compare the tmrca's of the Spanish and Italian e-m123
 
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The lack of this in balkans has to rule out phoenician
The lack of this in many regions of Europe and balkans again maybe rules out being Jewish too, didn't Jews settle in some of those regions where e-m123 is nonexistent/too small? But then again, nazis wiped out a lot of them so difficult to assess
If you look at the j1 map, it is quite similar. You can assume most e-m123 came from middle east & Arabian peninsula in the early muslim conquests of North Africa, Spain/Portugal and South Italy
Can someone compare the tmrca's of the Spanish and Italian e-m123

You tear my hourt
I do believe that the nazis reduced the % of e-m123-m34 clade
In europe..... :sad-2:
In europe some branches of e- m34
Are mainly in south italy and sicily.....
They could arrived with muslims
Or more likely in roman period and late antiquity:)
There is also a e-m123 pocket in oristano
Sardinia
.... :unsure:
Some jews were expeled by emperor tiberius in the year 19Ad
To sardinia....
So in sardinia could be roman jews, or pheonicians carthagenians....:)

P.s
e-m123 is present in lebanon 4-5% and in cyprus 10%
E-m123* ( without m34 mutation) is much older in europe iron age/ bronze age or even chl.
But only time can tell.:)
Acording to yfull the age of e-m34 in italy and iberia is
Much older but i take it with grain salt
Need to see it back up with ancient dna to believe:unsure:
 
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You tear my hourt
I do believe that the nazis reduced the % of e-m123-m34 clade
In europe..... :sad-2:
In europe some branches of e- m34
Are mainly in south italy and sicily.....
They could arrived with muslims
Or more likely in roman period and late antiquity:)
There is also a e-m123 pocket in oristano
Sardinia
.... :unsure:
Some jews were expeled by emperor tiberius in the year 19Ad
To sardinia....
So in sardinia could be roman jews, or pheonicians carthagenians....:)

P.s
e-m123 is present in lebanon 4-5% and in cyprus 10%
E-m123* ( without m34 mutation) is much older in europe iron age/ bronze age or even chl.
But only time can tell.:)
Acording to yfull the age of e-m34 in italy and iberia is
Much older but i take it with grain salt
Need to see it back up with ancient dna to believe:unsure:

If e-m123 existed in Italy that long ago then it probably rules out it being Muslim expansion in South italy

Sardinia has history with phoenicians so if you can find some links with their y dna and lebanese y dna then it's probably phoenician
 
Yes
Sardinia had pheonician influence
I think another branch of e1b1b ( not e- m34)
the e- m81 branch is probably carthegenian in sardinia😉

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-A683/
 
Very nice, but I think it is very misleading considering the depopulation of everyone the Nazis thought "looked Jewish" in the 2nd Reich area.
I think E-M123 is pretty clearly Phoenician and probably spread with the Romans too. I have a suggestion for the presence of E-M123 across Ukraine could be from Akatzir Cursarioi or from Lithuanian Palemonids from Belarussia. I recommend looking at yfull.com for more up to date E-M123 results. Some branches e.g. yfull.com/tree/E-Y6938/ are clearly native to the Lithuanian Grand-Duch area. Also should remember to include Gagauzia and presence in indigenous Crimean populations, Taman and the Caucasus?
Time for an update perhaps?
that is correct :)
there are some russian samples ( chuvash , tatar )
they belong to the E-L791 sub branches
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y179036/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y152161/

p.s
i also reading the russian dna forum
and there are few cases of mishar tatars who belong to those branches
under E-L791
E-m123 was found in kongaz gagauze 4.2%
and also in south moldova kharasani 4.2%
https://i.imgur.com/QmCFNRb.png

https://i.imgur.com/sNcKaSN.jpg


p.s
But we don' t know if they are: e-m123*, e-m34, E-L791, e- m84:unsure:
i say we don't know the final branch
because in moldova was found a member of e-m123*( PF4428)
"Another E-M123* (PF4428) was found in Moldavia."
source: e3b haplozone
http://community.haplozone.net/index.php?topic=4370.45

 
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You tear my hourt
I do believe that the nazis reduced the % of e-m123-m34 clade
In europe..... :sad-2:
In europe some branches of e- m34
Are mainly in south italy and sicily.....
They could arrived with muslims
Or more likely in roman period and late antiquity:)
There is also a e-m123 pocket in oristano
Sardinia
.... :unsure:
Some jews were expeled by emperor tiberius in the year 19Ad
To sardinia....
So in sardinia could be roman jews, or pheonicians carthagenians....:)

P.s
e-m123 is present in lebanon 4-5% and in cyprus 10%
E-m123* ( without m34 mutation) is much older in europe iron age/ bronze age or even chl.
But only time can tell.:)
Acording to yfull the age of e-m34 in italy and iberia is
Much older but i take it with grain salt
Need to see it back up with ancient dna to believe:unsure:







[h=3]The complex genetic structure of Cyprus[/h][FONT=&quot]Figure 1 presents the phylogenetic relationships and frequencies of the Y-chromosome lineages detected in the six districts of Cyprus. Like other populations in Anatolia and Lebanon, Cyprus exhibits a high level of haplogroup J2-M172 related diversity. J2a-M410 is the dominant Y-chromosome lineage, constituting 26.0 % of the overall Cypriot samples. J2b-M12/M102 splits into mainly J2b-M205 (5.9 %), frequent in Southern Levant (Additional file 5: Figure S2), and J2b-M241 (0.6 %), most frequent in Greece and the Balkans [20, 35]. Overall, the E-M35 haplogroup totals to 23.1 % and contains various E-M78 sub-haplogroups including E-V13 (7.3 %) that is common in Greece [10, 18, 35] and E-V22 (3.5 %), that is frequent in Egypt [10] and Sudan [49]. Another E-M35 related haplogroup, E-M34, previously reported in Asia Minor [31], Southern Levant [50, 51], and the Balkans [35] also was observed in Cyprus (10.3 %).

source:
[/FONT]

[h=3]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4750176/[/h]
 
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a sample from late viking age named VK474 from gotland dated to 975AD who apperntly was 98% polish like autosomaly speaking
belonged to e-L791 :cool-v:https://i.imgur.com/GrKJ83z.png

from people who looked in this sample bam file it probably belonged to E-Y4971
E-L791 > Y4971 ( there is a non-jewish pole in this branch in yfull)

https://yfull.com/tree/E-Y4971*/
to be sure i say we wait for pribislav anlaysis
but for sure we know he was E-L791 :)
and autosomally speaking was polish like :)someone uploaded his autosomal to gedmatch don't know the kit number
his eurogenes k13

https://i.imgur.com/8pblhLq.png


p.s
the source of this sample from this paper:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2688-8
he was uploaded to yfull ( anlaysis in progress) (y)

https://yfull.com/tree/E-Y4971/
 
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Judging from the other members of the E-Y4971 branch, VK474 may be descended from a real-life version of the Thirteenth Warrior, albeit through a North Slavic milieu.
 
Judging from the other members of the E-Y4971 branch, VK474 may be descended from a real-life version of the Thirteenth Warrior, albeit through a North Slavic milieu.
Could be
I love this movie it is cool :cool-v:
And underrated in my opinion.... :unsure:
I tend to agree with you...
The only problem is that the dude was 98% polish like in ancestery... ( like the most from all the individuals of this research)
He might be some polish warriour ������
Gotland had trade with the baltic and north poland
Some swedish vikings could kidnaped him and took him to gotland:LOL:
Regards
Adam

P.s
But yes in the year 850Ad he might been
Ahmed ibn -fadhlan or another arab or
armenian
Who knows ..... ..:unsure:
 
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yesterday got the results of the e-y14899 snp test
i am negetive for it :unsure:

https://i.imgur.com/Q6WP0IO.jpg

i ordered the e-z827 snp pack
so we will see which other branch of e-m84 i fall ......:unsure:



P.s
There is a huge chance that i belong
To some arabian branch :unsure:
 
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Got my results yesterday 20/11 ,Bummer i am negetive for all the downstream of e-s11956 offered by the e- z827 pack , and i am still stuck in the neolithic ������ unfortantue for me the e-z827 don't check for e-s11168 branch which i might fall on it.... ������
I am negetive for: e-y14899, e-y14891, e-z841, e-l791,e-y5412,e-fgc18412,e-fgc18401,e-pf6751,e-pf6747,

https://i.imgur.com/T9JmJXA.png




P.s
It is 90% that i am e-s11168 a branch which is a mizrahi-sefhardi branch
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y60961/
that wasn't checked by the e-z827 snp pack
I might order the big y just need to find away to get 370$������ ������������������������������
 
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i ordered big y 700 today for my kit
i know it is carzy 370$ :shocked:
but hey
there is this sentence
"you need to know from where you came to know to where you go"

p.s
will see if i am indeed in the e-s11168 branch as i suspect
and if i do big y 700 also anlaysed it farther there ....
the thing is that they also charge later for bam file if i want to upload to yfull:unsure:
 
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Some corrections to the e-m84
Part of the e-m123 tree in this site
:unsure:
1) e-y5427 is the parent of e-pf6751 but also of e-FGC18353 which in turn is the common parent of e-y5435 and also of e-y14899
2) E-S11168 the the other branch who derived directly from e-cts1096 it is mainly a
mizrahi- sefhardi branch and extremely small one which high chance i fall on one of his sub-branches ....
3) there are cases including in this e3b ftdna project of branches who are E-M84 but are
E-CTS1096 - negetive :
E-B406 ( includes uzbek jew from paper by Behar 2017, and a person from qatar)
E-BY49153 (person of polish heritage, a person with austrian roots ,a south spaniard from sevilla)
E-BY56570 ( includes iraqi jew, person of english heritage, spaniard from a coruna galicia)
 
this research :

most e-m123 samples of people with catalunian surnames are apperntly e-L791 (more close to napoleon branch of e-m34) :cool-v:

Y-chromosome diversity in Catalan surname samples: insights into surname origin and frequency

Neus Solé-Morata, Jaume Bertranpetit, David Comas and Francesc CalafelI.

Abstract

The biological behavior of the Y chromosome, which is paternally inherited, implies that males sharing the same surname may also share a similar Y chromosome. However, socio-cultural factors, such as polyphyletism, non-paternity, adoption, or matrilineal surname transmission, may prevent the joint transmission of the surname and the Y chromosome. By genotyping 17 Y-STRs and 68 SNPs in ~2500 male samples that each carried one of the 50 selected Catalan surnames, we could determine sets of descendants of a common ancestor, the population of origin of the common ancestor, and the date when such a common ancestor lived. Haplotype diversity was positively correlated with surname frequency, that is, rarer surnames showed the strongest signals of coancestry. Introgression rates of Y chromosomes into a surname by non-paternity, adoption, and transmission of the maternal surname were estimated at 1.5?2.6% per generation, with some local variation. Average ages for the founders of the surnames were estimated at ~500 years, suggesting a delay between the origin of surnames (twelfth and thirteenth centuries) and the systematization of their paternal transmission. We have found that, in general, a foreign etymology for a surname does not often result in a non-indigenous origin of surname founders; however, bearers of some surnames with an Arabic etymology show an excess of North African haplotypes. Finally, we estimate that surname prediction from a Y-chromosome haplotype, which may have interesting forensic applications, has a ~60% sensitivity but a 17% false discovery rate.



source:

https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg201514


farroukh from e3b haplozone did a great work :
(y)

he extracted E-M35 haplotypes and deleted the completely blanc ones

Final sample contains:
E-M123 - 43 hpts
E-M180 - 1 hpt
E-M35* - 1 hpt
E-M81 - 41 hpts
E-V12 - 7 hpts
E-V13 - 90 hpts
E-V22 - 4 hpts


now of the 40 e-m123 haplotypes
30 are e-L791 and 10 are e-m84
farroukh compare the haplotypes from the paper in terms of y-str markers to data base that was free before of
e3b clusters ....




https://i.imgur.com/KOyaBBk.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mLBoZpT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/W0V1Bwh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/kiGouU1.jpg
 
from the albanian data base :)
in last 2 pages of the enteries

https://translate.googleusercontent...blike/&usg=ALkJrhiFc8408B6x_eRyhENBmj5TfUlCyg

e-m34 haplotypes ( mixture of e-L791 and e-m84)


DevollKorçëShqipëriE1b-M123>M34
KukësKukësShqipëriE1b-M123>M34>L791
KukësKukësShqipëriE1b-M123>M34>L791
KukësKukësShqipëriE1b-M123>M34>L791
TiranëTiranëShqipëriE1b-M123>M34>Z841
GramshElbasanShqipëriE1b-M123>M34>Z841
BeratBeratShqipëriE1b-M123>M34>M84
BeratBeratShqipëriE1b-M123>M34>M84
LibrazhdElbasanShqipëriE1b-M123>M34>M84
BulqizëDibërShqipëriE1b-M123>M34>M84
TiranëTiranëShqipëriE1b-M123>M34>M84
TiranëTiranëShqipëriE1b-M123>M34>M84




although generally speaking extremely low % in total albania
there are some albanian regions who show 4-5% e-m34 (in different sub-branches)

NE-V13R-M269J-L283I-Y3120R-M417I-M253J-M410J-M267I-M223GE-M123
Berat4429.518.24.615.92.34.62.39.12.34.64.6
Dibër10222.512.731.44.911.82.921111
Durrës152013.313.32020
Elbasan5125.513.313.323.93.99.825.93.9
Fier329.421.912.56.315.66.39.46.36.3
Gjirokastër11228.612.57.110.76.39.86.383.63.6
Korçë6823.516.25.919.111.85.97.42.92.92.9
Kukës6429.718.837.51.64.74.7
Lezhë3630.613.916.75.62.85.616.72.82.8
Shkodër13032.317.717.74.63.914.63.11.50.8
Tiranë58311910.31.78.63.512.16.95.2
Vlorë7219.426.48.36.96.98.39.75.61.4

https://translate.googleusercontent...tikat/&usg=ALkJrhjzYZY7uPGnAy_b4UkGqLPb-yVVkQ


p.s
% in regions
can change in future with more samples:unsure:

in kukes the samples are e-y4972 ( e-L791 subclade)
in berat and tirana they are e-fgc18353
there are also 2 samples (1 from tirana and 1 from elbasan) who are e-z21466( an e-z849 subclade)
 
E-M34 has nothing to do with Albanians, there are only 12 people with it out of 1000+ tested, that means roughly 1% - it is more common in other places in balkans like Greece, Bulgaria or Serbia - either roman spread, Jewish or Middle eastern ottoman.

Places in Albania with more than 1% have had very few tests so results are skewed
 
E-M34 has nothing to do with Albanians, there are only 12 people with it out of 1000+ tested, that means roughly 1% - it is more common in other places in balkans like Greece, Bulgaria or Serbia - either roman spread, Jewish or Middle eastern ottoman.

Places in Albania with more than 1% have had very few tests so results are skewed


indeed
but i wouldn't be surprised it it came with romaniotes
or in roman period
it is intersting that the e-m34
are in different branches and clades
e-y4972, e-z21466, e-fgc18353
so they might entered albania in different time from different sources

p.s
i never said it is common
and i mentioned it is extremely low %
and results may change in future sample
it is still interesting though :unsure:
same goes for the e1a-m132 cases in diber and golloborda
 
it was found suprisingly in belgrade roma ( i wonder if they are e-L791 or e-m84 branches or mix of both)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S037811191200563X?via=ihub

https://i.imgur.com/tIZQK1B.png

To shed light on this matter, 161 Y-chromosomes from Roma, residing in two different provinces of Serbia, were analyzed.



from paper:

the presence of E1b1b1c-M123 sublineage in the Belgrade Roma population is most likely the result of its assimilation from southern-central Europe
 
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