New distribution map of haplogroup E-M123

some tips about str markers
that i learned from e3b haplozone from
http://community.haplozone.net/
efgen which is adminstrator there and also in e3b project :wink:

e-m35
In all of haplogroup E1b1b, the modal (most common) value for DYS392 is 11. DYS392 is quite a stable marker, and mutations are rare.




e-m34 in 67 markers
the last 4 markers of M123/M34/M84 are usually either 10-12-10-11 or 11-12-10-11)
( she meant markers : dys572, dy640, dys492, dys565)



e-L791
You are definitely still in cluster E3b1c1-G. What I was specifically looking for was DYS447<24, and you have 21. Everyone in clusters E3b1c1-F and E3b1c1-G have these low DYS447 values, while the vast majority of E3b has DYS447 >= 24 (except E3b1b2 which almost always has 23).

 cluster F and cluster G are both e-L791 downstreams




e-m84
Add his DYS413=20-21 (M84 modal is 21-24)
 
kingjohn said:
indeed
but i wouldn't be surprised it it came with romaniotes
or in roman period
it is intersting that the e-m34
are in different branches and clades
e-y4972, e-z21466, e-fgc18353
so they might entered albania in different time from different sources

p.s
i never said it is common
and i mentioned it is extremely low %
and results may change in future sample
it is still interesting though :thinking:
same goes for the e1a-m132 cases in diber and golloborda
Click to expand...


some of them in yfull in different branches of e-m34:


under e-z841:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y177539/




https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y49685/


under e-m84>e-y5427:


https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y129333/



https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC10031*/



p.s
the 3 from kukes who were e-L791 were tested by y sequence company
not uploaded to yfull
but they are e-y4972 from someone who looked at them


https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y4972*/
 
Last edited:
from this paper

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0255140

out of 57 maronite cypriot
didn't knew e-m123 was so high among them probably founder event or something


image






image




Y-haplogroup subclade E1b1b-M123 is frequent in both Maronite Cypriots and Greek Cypriots (21.05%, 13.10%).


https://i.imgur.com/QdADHPk.jpg

 
from this paper:

https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2015138

41431_2016_Article_BFejhg2015138_Fig1_HTML.jpg



By contrast, I-M223 and E-M123 appear significantly over-represented in the Arbereshe ethnolinguistic minorities (P-value<0.001 and P-value=0.0015, respectively) with respect to Southern Italy and the Balkans. In addition, these lineages show differential genetic links between the Sicilian Arbereshe and the Calabrian sample of POL_SW (E-M123: 18.2% and 22.2%, respectively), compared with the other Calabrian Arbereshe communities of VAL_CRA and POL_AREA (I-M223: 17.4% and 25%, respectively). Accordingly, whereas the I-M223 network (Supplementary Figure S6) mainly reflects its specificity for ARB_CAL (being cluster I-M223α completely absent in ARB_SIC), the E-M123 network shows the co-existence of two distinct Arbereshe-specific clusters (Supplementary Figure S7): a 100% ARB_CAL (E-M123α) one and a 100% ARB_SIC (E-M123β) one. Age estimates are similar for both E-M123 clusters (1133±314 and 883±228 YBP), yet predating the time of Arbereshe settlement in Southern Italy.


7.55 % e-m123 8/106 - arbereshe calabrians
18.18% e-m123 8/44 - arbereshe sicily


p.s
could be geneflow from host population to the arbereshe community
or real albanians who migrated from south albania
i am more in the first option:thinking:
 
this is a paper i wasn't aware of :
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/ajhb.22677
it found significant % e-m123
in jenne village interesting
2-20377427a5.jpg



in supplementary table 3:
there are the haplotypes that beyond snp was checked for 17 y-str markers
i put them in negven :
( i might have a mistake here and there although i dont think so)
almost all of them are under e-m84>e-y5427>e-pf6751
although there is also one under e-L791> E-Y4972 (napoleon branch)




jenne (known snp e-m123)

j7- e-m84 ( likely e-pf6751)
j10-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
j11-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
j29-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
j30-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
j31-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
j51-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
j52-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
j53-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
j54-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
j55-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
j56-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
j71-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
j76-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
j94-e-z841(likely e-y4972)
j101-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)


p.s
afcorse most of the other e1b1b1 in the other villages in this paper are mainly
under e-v13
 
I think founder effect and the following explain it quite well.

6557962301_b19aab9c6e_b.jpg


20150829-101836-largejpg.jpg


Makes my father's Val Parma look positively cosmopolitan.
 
from this paper (i wanted to see the splitt of the different e-m123 branches)
https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2015124
i took the haplotypes 20 y-str and put them in negven
known snp e-m123
41431_2016_Article_BFejhg2015124_Fig1_HTML.jpg


syracuse (139 samples)
SR61- syracuse- e-m84 ( likely e-y5435)
SR77-syracuse-e-m84(likely e-y5435)
SR89-syracuse-e-m84( likely e-pf6751)
SR142-syrcuse-e-m84( likely e-pf6751)

augusta (39 samples)
AU18-augusta( megara hyblaea)-e-m84( likely e-ft81636)

trapani(35 samples)
TP15-trapani-e-z841(likely e-z841>z21466)

lecce(47 sampels)
MES61-lecce-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
MES71-lecce -e-m84(likely e-y5435)

catanzaro(31 samples)
CZ377-catanzaro-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)

matera(53 samples)
MET1984-matera-e-z841(likely e-z841>y4972)

ascoli piceno (48 samples)
OFF18-ascoli piceno/offida(e-m123*)

corinthia (105 samples)
K100-corinthia-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)
KOR5-corinthia-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)

euboea(94 samples)
Xal26-euboea-e-m123*(x-m34)

albania (94 samples)
alb013-e-m84(likely e-y5435)
alb269-e-m123( negven failed to predict farther)
alb274-e-m84(likely e-y5435)

Udine (46 samples)
Ud21-udine-e-m123( likely e-m123*(×m34)
Ud35-udine-e-m84(likely e-y5435)
 
Last edited:
this paper :

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00414-007-0153-y

414_2007_153_Fig1_ESM.gif




e-m34 6.1% 10/162 in marche region (known snp : e-m35(xe3b1,e3b2,e-m224)
(17 y-str predicted by negven )

ht4- e-m84( likely e-m84>pf6751)(matelica)

ht5-e-m84(likely e-m84>pf6751)(matelica)

ht7-e-m84(likely e-m84>y5435)(urbino)

ht15-e-z841(likely e-z841>y4972)(ascoli piceno)

ht16-e-z841(likely e-z841>y6923)(fabriano)

ht17-e-z841(likely e-z841>y4972)(fabriano)

ht18-e-z841(likely e-z841>y2947)(fabriano)

ht19-e-z841(likely e-z841>y4972)(fabriano)

ht24-e-m84(likely e-m84>pf6751)(fabriano)

ht28-e-m84(likely e-m84>pf6751)(ascoli piceno)


ht31-e-L19>e-pf2431(ascoli piceno)





p.s

10/162 6.1% e-m34( splitt of e-m34 branches: 5/162 3% e-L-791 , 5/162 3% e-m84)

also
1/162 0.6% e-L19>pf2431( the 1 case is in ascoli piceno )
 
Last edited:
back to the middle east :)

iraqi kurds and turkmens

this paper:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0187408

500 northern iraqi (17 y-str predicted e1b1b1 in this paper is predicted by negven
but also by whit athey predictor )

from the paper:
17-loci Y-STR-based in silico haplogroup assignments were made using the 21-haplogroup batch processing version of the Whit Athey algorithm [29]. Validation of the in silico haplogroup assignments were carried out using a second algorithm called NevGen Y-DNA Haplogroup Predictor (www.nevgen.org).

i focsed on the e1b1b1( e-m34 branches ) in iraqi kurdish sample and
the turkmen sample;-)

image





kurds north iraq 104 samples


kr011- e-m84 (likely e-pf6751)

kr031-e-m84(likely e-y5435)

kr048-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)

kr049-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)

kr056-e-z841(likely e-y4972)

kr069-e-z841(likely e-y4972)

kr076- e-m84( likely e-pf6751)

kr093-e-z841(likely e-y2947)

8/104 7.6% e-m34



turkmen 102 samples


tm014- e-m84
tm028-e-m84( likely e-y5435 )
tm035-e-m84( likely e-pf6751)
tm038-e-m84(likely e-y5435)
tm046-e-m84(likely e-y5435)
tm049-e-m84(likely e-y5435)
tm063-e-z841(likely e-y4972)
tm070-e-m123*(likely e-pf4428)
tm078-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)



7/102 6.8% e-m34 in turkmen

 
kingjohn said:
back to the middle east :)

iraqi kurds and turkmens

this paper:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0187408

500 northern iraqi (17 y-str predicted e1b1b1 in this paper is predicted by negven
but also by whit athey predictor )

from the paper:
17-loci Y-STR-based in silico haplogroup assignments were made using the 21-haplogroup batch processing version of the Whit Athey algorithm [29]. Validation of the in silico haplogroup assignments were carried out using a second algorithm called NevGen Y-DNA Haplogroup Predictor (www.nevgen.org).

i focsed on the e1b1b1( e-m34 branches ) in iraqi kurdish sample and
the turkmen sample;-)

image





kurds north iraq 104 samples


kr011- e-m84 (likely e-pf6751)

kr031-e-m84(likely e-y5435)

kr048-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)

kr049-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)

kr056-e-z841(likely e-y4972)

kr069-e-z841(likely e-y4972)

kr076- e-m84( likely e-pf6751)

kr093-e-z841(likely e-y2947)

8/104 7.6% e-m34



turkmen 102 samples


tm014- e-m84
tm028-e-m84( likely e-y5435 )
tm035-e-m84( likely e-pf6751)
tm038-e-m84(likely e-y5435)
tm046-e-m84(likely e-y5435)
tm049-e-m84(likely e-y5435)
tm063-e-z841(likely e-y4972)
tm070-e-m123*(likely e-pf4428)
tm078-e-m84(likely e-pf6751)



7/102 6.8% e-m34 in turkmen
Click to expand...


Are Turkmen and iraqi Kurds ....from the ancient Medes ...........a northern Iranian group ?

Are Turkmen from Turkmenistan
 
torzio said:
Are Turkmen and iraqi Kurds ....from the ancient Medes ...........a northern Iranian group ?
Are Turkmen from Turkmenistan
Click to expand...

good questions:great:
about iraqi kurds
who knows maybe ;-)

about turkmen i mean- iraqi turkmen not turkmens from turkmenistan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Turkmen

Whilst Turkic migration to Iraq began in the 7th century, followed by the Seljuk conquest of 1055, today most Iraqi Turkmens are the descendants of the Ottoman soldiers, traders and civil servants who were brought into Iraq from Anatolia during the rule of the Ottoman Empire in Iraq between 1535 and 1919.


p.s
(i think turkmens from turkmenistan proper will have extremely low % of e1b1b
but who knows
i2085 was anceint e-m34 dude from turkmenistan bmac culture ( that couldn't been anlaysed farther
to know exactly which branch of e-m34 he belonged to )
 so it is hard to know) :wondering:
 

an e-m84 case from bronze age
Armenia is as expected fall on e-pf6751 branch
(Like the late-chl anatolian ,syrian bronze age remains and even hazor north israel remain e-pf6751 is a very succesfull branch of e-m84)

Pribislav anthrogenica analysed the bam file ::good_job:
R11675; 1491-1324 BC; Beniamin, Armenia; E-M84>S11387>CTS5265>Y5427>PF6751>Y6186>FT278388* (xFT276527)


source:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.05.15.491973v1


P.s
beniamin is in shirak province in modern day armenia

map_en.gif


This most downstream branch was found in indian scientific sample back in the day
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FT278388/
Fascinating
 
hey guys check the e-m123 tree in ydna, it just added my sample, im am E-M123 Kurd from turkey
 
agok said:
hey guys check the e-m123 tree in ydna, it just added my sample, im am E-M123 Kurd from turkey
Click to expand...

yes man welcome :great:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-M123/
We also have a special thread for e-m123* (x m34 )
One of the leading there is velislav you probably knows him

here:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33292-E-m123*

p.s
you are a living legend your branch is very rare (
because even inside the e-m123*( x m34)
most fall on fgc62236/e-y31991 and you are
not
you might belong to the indo-iranian branch

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/E;name=E-FT179548

that was found in ancient
scytians from north east kazakhstan and the north pakistan swat iron age remains
future will tell:thinking:
 
Last edited:
that was found in ancient
scytians from north east kazakhstan and the north pakistan swat iron age remains
future will tell

but the north pakistan swat iron age remains arent scythians are they?

If its from scythians its pretty interesting to me as a kurd, because histrorically i know, that the persians, cyrus the great if im correct(whom we are very related to as kurds, it is said that kurds are descended from medes, and medes and persians are very closely related too) attacked the scythians, and at the time a queen ruled over the saka scythians and warned cyrus not to invade, well he did anyway and lost badly XD

so to belong to a scythian branch, which dealt one of the most humiliating loss to my (supposed or closely related) ancestor group sounds pretty funny :D

But i probably interpretated too much in this one

Its probably from the scythians, who made numerous raids from north of the caucasus(between the black and caspian sea) down through the caucasus into present turkey and iran iraq and so forth, raiding and therefore of course, mating with the local women there

when i tried to research about my kurdish origin ethnogesis, i also read a lot that kurds have their indo-european language because of invasions from tribes from the north caucasus region or even further the black sea scythia region, complex topic forgot many things about it, but it was interesting the relations between the umman manda medes scythians assyrians in the region
 
agok said:
that was found in ancient
scytians from north east kazakhstan and the north pakistan swat iron age remains
future will tell

but the north pakistan swat iron age remains arent scythians are they?

If its from scythians its pretty interesting to me as a kurd, because histrorically i know, that the persians, cyrus the great if im correct(whom we are very related to as kurds, it is said that kurds are descended from medes, and medes and persians are very closely related too) attacked the scythians, and at the time a queen ruled over the saka scythians and warned cyrus not to invade, well he did anyway and lost badly XD

so to belong to a scythian branch, which dealt one of the most humiliating loss to my (supposed or closely related) ancestor group sounds pretty funny :D

But i probably interpretated too much in this one

Its probably from the scythians, who made numerous raids from north of the caucasus(between the black and caspian sea) down through the caucasus into present turkey and iran iraq and so forth, raiding and therefore of course, mating with the local women there

when i tried to research about my kurdish origin ethnogesis, i also read a lot that kurds have their indo-european language because of invasions from tribes from the north caucasus region or even further the black sea scythia region, complex topic forgot many things about it, but it was interesting the relations between the umman manda medes scythians assyrians in the region
Click to expand...


i think not i think
they are indo-aryans
but thats my opinion i think velislav and others knows
better than me about the swat remains
 
kingjohn said:
i think not i think
they are indo-aryans
but thats my opinion i think velislav and others knows
better than me about the swat remains
Click to expand...

Indo+Iranian would most likely be the case. But that's normal, I mean in case this haplogroup was already present in the Andronovo culture, from there it would have penetrated all the branches of the Aryans. It seems historically our branches separated in the late Mesolithic period from what I can tell with mines going to Europe (with Neolithic farmers) and his going to Asia (with the IE colonizers).
 
my str results are completed, my updated y111 is:

16 24 13 11 - - 11 12 12 13 11 31 - 9 9 11 11 27 14 20 - - - - - 11 11 19 low confidence 22 low confidence 15 13 - - - - 14 10 10 8 15 15 7 10 10 8 11 10 0 24 24 16 11 12 12 - 7 12 25 19 13 low confidence 13 12 14 10 12 10 11 - 16 8 16 11 - - 19 - 12 14 12 14 9 11 11 10 11 12 29 12 - - 14 9 11 28 16 17.a low confidence - 22 - 12 16 24 - 21 21 low confidence 12 low confidence 14 18 7 12 11

nevgen format:16,24,13,11,0-0,11,12,12,13,11,31,0,9-9,11,11,27,14,20,0,0-0-0-0,11,11,19-22,15,13,0,0,0-0,14,10,10,8,15-15,7,10,10,8,11,10,0,24-24,16,11,12,12,0,7,12,25,19,13,13,12,14,10,12,10,11,0,16,8,16,11,0,0,19,0,12,14,12,14,9,11,11,10,11,12,29,12,0,0,14,9,11,28,16,17,0,22,0,12,16,24,0,21,21,12,14,18,7,12,11

16
24
13
11
-
-
11
12
12
13
11
31
-
9
9
11
11
27
14
20
-
-
-
-
-
11
11
19 low confidence
22 low confidence
15
13
-
-
-
-
14
10
10
8
15
15
7
10
10
8
11
10
0
24
24
16
11
12
12
-
7
12
25
19
13 low confidence
13
12
14
10
12
10
11
-
16
8
16
11
-
-
19
-
12
14
12
14
9
11
11
10
11
12
29
12
-
-
14
9
11
28
16
17.a low confidence
-
22
-
12
16
24
-
21
21 low confidence
12 low confidence
14
18
7
12
11
 
agok said:
my str results are completed, my updated y111 is:

16 24 13 11 - - 11 12 12 13 11 31 - 9 9 11 11 27 14 20 - - - - - 11 11 19 low confidence 22 low confidence 15 13 - - - - 14 10 10 8 15 15 7 10 10 8 11 10 0 24 24 16 11 12 12 - 7 12 25 19 13 low confidence 13 12 14 10 12 10 11 - 16 8 16 11 - - 19 - 12 14 12 14 9 11 11 10 11 12 29 12 - - 14 9 11 28 16 17.a low confidence - 22 - 12 16 24 - 21 21 low confidence 12 low confidence 14 18 7 12 11

nevgen format:16,24,13,11,0-0,11,12,12,13,11,31,0,9-9,11,11,27,14,20,0,0-0-0-0,11,11,19-22,15,13,0,0,0-0,14,10,10,8,15-15,7,10,10,8,11,10,0,24-24,16,11,12,12,0,7,12,25,19,13,13,12,14,10,12,10,11,0,16,8,16,11,0,0,19,0,12,14,12,14,9,11,11,10,11,12,29,12,0,0,14,9,11,28,16,17,0,22,0,12,16,24,0,21,21,12,14,18,7,12,11

16
24
13
11
-
-
11
12
12
13
11
31
-
9
9
11
11
27
14
20
-
-
-
-
-
11
11
19 low confidence
22 low confidence
15
13
-
-
-
-
14
10
10
8
15
15
7
10
10
8
11
10
0
24
24
16
11
12
12
-
7
12
25
19
13 low confidence
13
12
14
10
12
10
11
-
16
8
16
11
-
-
19
-
12
14
12
14
9
11
11
10
11
12
29
12
-
-
14
9
11
28
16
17.a low confidence
-
22
-
12
16
24
-
21
21 low confidence
12 low confidence
14
18
7
12
11
Click to expand...


thats what i get when i put your haplotype in negven ( which having extremely hard time with your haplotype)
but even though the probability is extremely low and fitness very low
it still points to e-m123* as the likely haplogroup

i try with 2 options:

1)without known snp

https://i.imgur.com/OFOrtNE.png

2)with known snp e-m35

https://i.imgur.com/BZ8O0OB.png
 
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